Notching Tree's

[tek9tim]

Love the K&H. Durable with good lift. Had a pair last most of a season of fire. That's amazing. Seems the 7.5 or 8 inchers are the ones I use the most. I like the little barbie wedges for the first one I throw in for safety, then a 7.5 or two to drive it over.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Of course, I have real dogs on my saws, not the sissy ones that come on half wrap saws..

Spoken like a true Western faller!

Great post Tim.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Question for the 'real' fallers . Is there an advantage to plunging thru the tree just behind the face cut and cutting out to the rear face for a portion of the back cut? I've seen that in some vids recently...just curious since I've seen very few videos of boring being used.

Chaser

The bore cut was demonstrated in a Husky demo at the Paul Bunyan show in Oct. As ekka said, it's great for preventing barberchairs but also great at directing the fall on any tree. I've used it on two trees since that I had planned to rope off through a snatch block and pull with my truck (16" cherry and 20" sumac). No rope needed and they went right where I wanted them - about 90 deg to the lean. Of course, you can only correct for lean up to a point. The Husky Rep recommended the 80%/10% rule. Make at least a 90 deg. open notch reaching 80% of the diameter and leave a hinge that is 10% of the diameter. I left about an inch deep strip at the back, drove in a 1" wedge on both sides of the strip, and cut the strip. The width and location of the strip would vary somewhat with the size of the tree and amount and direction of lean. Thought I had seen other posts on this.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Love the K&H. Durable with good lift. Had a pair last most of a season of fire. That's amazing. Seems the 7.5 or 8 inchers are the ones I use the most. I like the little barbie wedges for the first one I throw in for safety, then a 7.5 or two to drive it over.

In response to Chaser's question about wedges, I'll just say....

....ditto.

K&H are awesome wedges. They cost more, but they won't fail you, their tip won't roll as easy, and they'll lift a freight train. I carry all sizes, but the 5" is used the most just to put in a kerf to keep it open and as a starting wedge. The7.5" or whatever the size up from 5" is what I'll use often to actually put the tree over. Nothing like the satisfaction of having a wedge work like it's supposed to.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

And as far as the bore cut, it's a great tool to have in your tool bag, but again as Tim said, I only use it on heavy forward leaners. Under normal conditions a standard Humboldt face and back cut are the best and safest means.

 

[blis]

Awwww........That's just great.........now I need more than 1 wedge :hmm3grin2orange: I work residential only part time and never have cut more than 14" diameter and won't cuz I do not have the proper equipment to do it right. A 2nd wedge will cut into da damn profits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon

"why dont ya get a felling iron" -offspring....

seriouly, get a felling iron with hook, you need only one of them and you can also turn logs with it and ofcourse the important part, next time you leave brutus under the tree you can use the iron as wrench and stick it trought brutus's handle and roll it into nice piece of junk :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[smokechase II]

backing up

To back up earlier posts, and maybe add a little;
1) The best way to do stump shot is a back cut a couple inches higher than the apex of the Humboldt face. An open face, (aka birds mouth), or conventional face, (aka common) will not be as likely to hold a butt. The Open Face world is counting on the hinge to hold the butt. That often works in smaller timber on flatter ground. Where the physics are more pronounced in big trees and steep slopes that doesn’t apply.
Caveat. There are plenty of times where no techniques will stop a butt from coming back, (most common - dropping big timber on the West Coast uphill).
Time to step away from that assignment, probably.
2) A deeper face makes it easier to get a tree to go, within reason. (I.e. You are not taking over a leaner 90 degrees off lean etc). Fishhuntcutwood makes that point on bigger stuff and on the West side of this here continent that is an established fact. Open Face types don't like to make as deep as faces because they are trying to save lumber on the butt. Generally that works well on smaller trees. Remember the open face smaller into the tree face technique is best used and came from Scanavia and similar settings.
3) Avoid a deep face on a heavy leaner cause it'll pinch your bar.
Avoid a deep face on some smaller timber as you'll have less space to use for wedging.

But, the open face guys and others have some really clever ways of doing bore through the center cuts to use the longer wedges no problem on 12" dbh trees.

Keep a full tool bag of both wedges and techniques.

Hope this brief ramble before work made sense.

 

[tek9tim]

The bore cut was demonstrated in a Husky demo at the Paul Bunyan show in Oct. As ekka said, it's great for preventing barberchairs but also great at directing the fall on any tree. I've used it on two trees since that I had planned to rope off through a snatch block and pull with my truck (16" cherry and 20" sumac). No rope needed and they went right where I wanted them - about 90 deg to the lean. Of course, you can only correct for lean up to a point. The Husky Rep recommended the 80%/10% rule. Make at least a 90 deg. open notch reaching 80% of the diameter and leave a hinge that is 10% of the diameter. I left about an inch deep strip at the back, drove in a 1" wedge on both sides of the strip, and cut the strip. The width and location of the strip would vary somewhat with the size of the tree and amount and direction of lean. Thought I had seen other posts on this.

Yeah, that sounds just like the Game of Logging curriculum. You don't have to bore to pull something off like that. I had a 28" doug fir in my class C cert this year that had a heavy lean downhill, about to the point where I would consider a bore in backcut to avoid barberchair, but the certifiers figured it was too easy, and had me drop it sidehill. With gunning it about 15-20 degrees past where I actually wanted it to go, (and using a conventional face, I'd still be there if I would've used an open face) and a normal backcut with light wedge usage, I nailed my target. The place I can see where it would be of benefit to use the bore in the way you describe would be if the tree was small enough in diameter that bar and wedge wouldn't fit in the backcut at the same time. Of course, in that kind of situation, you have a lot less room for error with your boring cut, putting you in a situation where you might accidentally cut more of your holding wood than you wish, (since you have less control over where your bar goes in a bore cut) allowing the tree to go right back over where you didn't want it to. BUT, as I said earlier, to each their own. I'm a west coast guy that was mentored by a guy that was all about getting trees down safely with the least amount of farting around.

Where do you find those 1" wedges? Aren't those the ones you're supposed to put in your axe? Just kidding, I assume you mean 1" thick at the head, or you missed hitting the 0 to make it 10"...

 

[talon1189]

"why dont ya get a felling iron" -offspring....

seriouly, get a felling iron with hook, you need only one of them and you can also turn logs with it and ofcourse the important part, next time you leave brutus under the tree you can use the iron as wrench and stick it trought brutus's handle and roll it into nice piece of junk :hmm3grin2orange:

I don't even know what a felling iron is wise guy I got a 5 1/2" Stihl plastic felling wedge and I will go pick up a couple more on Monday. I can't really see getting bigger than a 5 1/2" wedge for trees 14" diameter or less. What else do I need? Brutus will make short work outta these size trees with a 16" bar and a modified muffler :hmm3grin2orange: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Talon

 

[tek9tim]

Yeah, what Smokechase said too.

Smokechase, you seemed to kind of skip over a good use for the humboldt, I usually use a humboldt along with a decent stump height (not stump shot, but height from the ground) when falling a tree directly uphill, because when the holding wood breaks off, the butt of the tree tends to then slip off the stump to the ground, anchoring the butt against the base of the stump, keeping the tree from sliding back downhill. It's worked like a charm for me lots of times. I know you know this, I'm just adding to what you said.

 

[blis]

I don't even know what a felling iron is wise guy I got a 5 1/2" Stihl plastic felling wedge and I will go pick up a couple more on Monday. I can't really see getting bigger than a 5 1/2" wedge for trees 14" diameter or less. What else do I need? Brutus will make short work outta these size trees with a 16" bar and a modified muffler :hmm3grin2orange: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Talon

theres your felling iron, works well atleast on trees under 20"

 

[Gypo Logger]

I think discussing the falling of timber is not only subjective, but hypothetical at best. Falling timber according to code or a book suggests that all other factors are equal, however, we can learn more from a book or another experienced individual in an hour than we could in a year on our own.
Every situation is different and the most important thing is a fast razor sharp saw with enough power to sever wood fibre faster than the tree can fall.

Predicting hazards and problems before they happen is important.
Anyone can get themselves into a jam regardless of experience, but knowing how to get out of it with the least effort and damage only comes from hard won experience.

Regardless, it's alot of fun. My 2 cents.

John

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[woodfarmer]

gypo

thats good advice, i think you should hold a clinic, i know i could use a little more advice with leaners

 

[Cut4fun]

Hey Talon, Bet little jr 361 wished you would have started this thread before you crushed his (__!__). :hmm3grin2orange:
Refer to my pic below, under my saws. LOL

 

[Lakeside53]

theres your felling iron, works well atleast on trees under 20"

It might work where you are, but a 20 inch tree in thee PNW can be 125 feet or more tall! Interesting, but I think I'll pass!

 

[talon1189]

Hey Talon, Bet little jr 361 wished you would have started this thread before you crushed his (__!__). :hmm3grin2orange:
Refer to my pic below, under my saws. LOL

Your right Cut..........Brutus refuses to cut any more wood without wedges or a felling iron :hmm3grin2orange: I am trying to find one and Bailey's don't carry them unless they are under a different name :sword: I can't afford to have him smushed again :hmm3grin2orange: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Talon

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Skip the felling iron. I'm sure it works, but you'll do better with a handfull of wedges and a timber cruising ax.

And since you'll probably ask-A timber ax, in my mind is one with a shorter handle, but full size head which has been dulled so when you're walking through the woods, and you trip and fall on it, you won't slice yourself open. But maybe you already knew that.

 

[Gologit]

Your right Cut..........Brutus refuses to cut any more wood without wedges or a felling iron :hmm3grin2orange: I am trying to find one and Bailey's don't carry them unless they are under a different name :sword: I can't afford to have him smushed again :hmm3grin2orange: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Talon

Maybe Bailey's doesn't sell them because they know that nobody wants one...looks like a good way to wind up with a tree in your lap. I'd like to watch somebody use one (from a distance) before I tried it on our kind of timber.

 

[John Ellison]

You will want your axe to have whats called a rafting handle(straight) and not the common curved single bit handle.

 

[manual]

Sissys ???

Spoken like a true Western faller!

Great post Tim.

Ay Least we can bend all the way down to the ground to Fell a Tree.
Waste not want not.