o no??

[LTREES]

And if you remove healthy trees for no other reason than $$,you're a hypocrite.

I'd rather be a hack than an arrogent hypocrite.

Some people like to put additions on thier homes. :jawdrop:

LT...

 

[ozzy42]

Some people like to put additions on thier homes. :jawdrop:

LT...

And they have every right to.You missed the point.Its a tree.

 

[tomtrees58]

Check the points on the Gecko's versus the old s[/IMG]

hey are the stringer brooks spikes tom trees

 

[Mapleman]

Guido spiked everything--well maybe not japanese maples--but he also thought a pole saw was a fishing gaff and pruning shears were for girls. The big G was brought up in a big tree culture on the west coast in the 70s where almost everything got spiked because the first branch was usually 40 feet or more off the deck, the trees with the exception of gums were thick barked, and there wasn't any big shots on hand to hit that first branch. Almost everyone I knew spiked blue gums.

On the east coast I learned to climb spike less, using a throwing bag and a pole saw to advance my snap. The only trees I've prune-spiked are a few gnarly silver mapes with no central tie in and the occasional black locust. But I'll always use spikes as a last resort, and when I do I try to get up the first 35 feet with a ladder, then kick off my spurs once I'm crotched in.

Personally, I find climbing "clean" is healthier for both the tree and myself. And I find guys who rely strictly on their gaffs and are unwilling to learn to climb spike less, or are unwilling to change bad habits, to be either lazy or afraid or more interested in $$$ than in the health of trees or lacking any sense of aesthetics, or any combination of the above. If Guido were alive today, I'm sure he would do his pruning sans spikes. But hey, what do I know, I've only been in the business for 30 years...

 

[tree MDS]

I love takedowns if thats what the customer wants - I spike em right up, love my gecko's. Take it down and dont dammage anything, thats what I'm getting paid for.

However, when someone takes an interest in paying me to prune thier trees, then I put on the arborist hat and do the right thing - no spikes, collar cuts and have a reason for what I'm cutting. I've never spiked a tree to prune it, thats just the way I was fortunate enough to have learned. Now I can understand someone being taught the wrong way and therefore being ignorant... but when you now know better and still insist on (and try to justify) doing it the wrong way, well then at this point you are a hack, plain and simple.

I guess this is what seperates the real treemen from the hacks. The hacks just dont have the commitment.

Raymond buddy, you seem like a good dude...but I couldnt take you to one of my prune jobs (not that I prune much), you spike prunes and yer just not respected around here, simple as that. Lose the spikes and the squirril tail. Well at least the spikes.

Florida has always been full of hacks for the most part. Something about the warm weather maybe?? I dunno.

 

[Slvrmple72]

I started out as a hack. No insurance, spikes, topping, and don't forget the ladder and crappy chainsaw. LOL!

Anyhow, like a small child starts out using training wheels to learn how to ride a bike and fights giving them up..... well, you get my "point"

Shigo has shown very clearly how spiking, like topping, is not the best thing for trees.

I will not tell you how to run your business but I will tell you from personal experience that as I have bookworm tendencies and learn from my mistakes I have seen a marked increase in my sense of pride for the quality work I have done as well as a marked increase in my profit margin. What I personally discovered was that by being able to offer better services and knowledge I was interacting with smarter customers who in their own professional fields garnered a better income and better quality of life without having to kill themselves workwise to make ends meet. That is something we all can appreciate.

 

[tree md]

Like I said, I used to spike everything because that is the way I was taught. However, I hate to see a pretty Pin Oak or Beech or something like that with gaff marks in them. Regardless of whether or not it's bad for the tree it's just plain ugly. It not too hard to do a spikeless prune and usually only takes a little more time to do. I use a ladder a lot to get to the first branch and climb from there. I hip thrust, trunk walk or limb walk where I need to. Most trees where I live have a low canopy and it's relatively easy to get to the first branch. Put a micro pulley behind your friction hitch and use a friction saver. Anytime you can reduce friction it makes it easier to get up and around the tree without spikes. Set a good High TIP and it's really not too hard to get where you need to go to make your cuts. I carry a loop runner and biner up with me for redirects and to get a foothold. People are becoming more educated about pruning of trees and often ask whether or not you spike your prunes. The condo complex I take care of made me aware that spikeless prunes was a requirement of the job before I ever placed my bid. Spikeless prunes are the future of tree care. I want to be ahead of that curve, not behind it.

 

[T.L]

hooks no hooks

Some towns and citys here in MD have there own arborists, they fine you between 15 & twenty-five $ for each hook mark,on a live tree. Special exceptions my apply if your reason is good enough but then watch out, they will be on every job you do for awhile. You can hook a tree if it is thicked bark and the first limb is to high to reach with your throwing bag, they are getting much strickter now then before and those tall poplars that have the first limb over 60' up, and have been lion tailed for the last twenty or so years, yeh the hooks come in handy, but be looking over your shoulder the man might be watching, and yeah 30 + years in the trees I can find hook marks in most of them, and at times you say WHY NOT , the answer I guess is the old guy that made the marks is now writing the rules and he don't care, shinney on out there boy it ain't bad. Although with the tools we use today and the new techniques you can get anywere without hooks , shins don't look so good at the end of the day but rules are rules and climbers are climbers. point is a good climber gets it done with or without hooks, just another day another tree.

 

[ClimbinArbor]

well treemandan called it. would you like me to put your ass in a bucket when i hand it to you or do you just want it thrown on the ground and danced around on.........

The best way that i have found to explain why you shouldnt spike up prune jobs(to HOs and employees) is this. Imagine the tree as a giant living pin cushion. Now how would YOU feel if you were said pin cushion?? you would feel even worse when those holes filled with insects that brought you a new microbial friend....

The whole put yourself in the tree's shoes works well. especially when discussing topping. "imagine growing up to be 20 years old and having someone cut off half of your arms."

 

[treemandan]

Some towns and citys here in MD have there own arborists, they fine you between 15 & twenty-five $ for each hook mark,on a live tree. Special exceptions my apply if your reason is good enough but then watch out, they will be on every job you do for awhile. You can hook a tree if it is thicked bark and the first limb is to high to reach with your throwing bag, they are getting much strickter now then before and those tall poplars that have the first limb over 60' up, and have been lion tailed for the last twenty or so years, yeh the hooks come in handy, but be looking over your shoulder the man might be watching, and yeah 30 + years in the trees I can find hook marks in most of them, and at times you say WHY NOT , the answer I guess is the old guy that made the marks is now writing the rules and he don't care, shinney on out there boy it ain't bad. Although with the tools we use today and the new techniques you can get anywere without hooks , shins don't look so good at the end of the day but rules are rules and climbers are climbers. point is a good climber gets it done with or without hooks, just another day another tree.

The quickest way to the top of a tall poplar?

Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueler?


SRT

Hell, even if I am going to TD one and want to get to the TIP first I am going to top rope it .

 

[treemandan]

I also agree with mapleman that climbing unfettered is DYNOMITE!!!

 

[T.L]

quickest way to the top

Maybe you misunderstood me or I wasen't clear. I didn't say hooks are the fastest way to the top or that you should use them. Here were I work you can get fined for each hook mark in the tree, thats a heck of a determent for using them. Count the hook marks X 15 to 25 dollars a hole and your broke. thats just in some towns or citys though, most guys here have said they use them or have used them occasionaly not as a habit as the original guy who posted this is claiming to do, maybe he just wanted to here everyone argue. Although I see there isn't a lot of disagreement , Hook a removal , trim without them.

 

[asthesun]

Check the points on the Gecko's versus the old style spurs.

Keeping in mind the word minimum. When I am just pruning out a tree I have them but am totally cautious of what I'm doing and don't use them if I don't have to. Steadying myself using them in already open lower cuts, if that. You don't have to stomp them in.

you need to sharpen those long before they get to that point. it'll save loads of energy. i sharpen mine weekly and all i do is step, dont need to stomp, except for hard dry dead stuff

 

[asthesun]

And if you remove healthy trees for no other reason than $$,you're a hypocrite.

I'd rather be a hack than an arrogent hypocrite.

:agree2: this. you do it your way, we do it our way. stop preaching pls. i wont change upon demand. the jehovas whitnesses figured that out eventually

 

[asthesun]

So now you're claiming that property owners should not have the right to decide what happens with the trees on their property?
Loggers harvest a renewable resource, specifically looking for the biggest and healthiest specimens to harvest, (for money), are they hypocrits too?

I've talked many propery owners OUT of removing a healthy tree. I've removed many other healthy trees that had to go. The guy who owned the tree said so.

So if safely and efficently completing the job I was hired for is being an arrogant hipocrit, I'm down with that.

I've had plenty of HO's ask me to cut down a tree that didn't need or deserve to be cut down, but you know what?

I've NEVER had a HO ask me to spike up their perfectly good tree.

I can understand where you're coming from tho.....it's tough being a hack and trying to avoid the fact. It makes those silly rationalizations you're coming up with seem justified.

no, they dont. not around here anyway. technically the homeowner is supposed to contact the city and have an arborist come out to determine whether the tree can be removed. does anyone do this? no of course not, they want their tree out and we want to take it out.

 

[asthesun]

I love takedowns if thats what the customer wants - I spike em right up, love my gecko's. Take it down and dont dammage anything, thats what I'm getting paid for.

However, when someone takes an interest in paying me to prune thier trees, then I put on the arborist hat and do the right thing - no spikes, collar cuts and have a reason for what I'm cutting. I've never spiked a tree to prune it, thats just the way I was fortunate enough to have learned. Now I can understand someone being taught the wrong way and therefore being ignorant... but when you now know better and still insist on (and try to justify) doing it the wrong way, well then at this point you are a hack, plain and simple.

I guess this is what seperates the real treemen from the hacks. The hacks just dont have the commitment.

Raymond buddy, you seem like a good dude...but I couldnt take you to one of my prune jobs (not that I prune much), you spike prunes and yer just not respected around here, simple as that. Lose the spikes and the squirril tail. Well at least the spikes.

Florida has always been full of hacks for the most part. Something about the warm weather maybe?? I dunno.

i make no bones about it. no justification needed save for this: spiking is easier and faster. time=money. i'm in it for the money and money alone.

 

[tree MDS]

i make no bones about it. no justification needed save for this: spiking is easier and faster. time=money. i'm in it for the money and money alone.

I thought you said you work for someone else??

What does your employer give you bonusses based on how many trees you butcher up per day or something??

 

[kennertree]

i make no bones about it. no justification needed save for this: spiking is easier and faster. time=money. i'm in it for the money and money alone.

Doing it right=more money in the long run. If you'll use your head you will make more money.

 

[asthesun]

I thought you said you work for someone else??

What does your employer give you bonusses based on how many trees you butcher up per day or something??

i work for someone else and i sub for several different ppl. when i'm done on the sub jobs, i get to go home paid in full. at my full time job, i was hired because i am pretty fast, experienced and i dont tear stuff up.

 

[kennertree]

i was hired because i am pretty fast, experienced and i dont tear stuff up.

Except for the trees you prune.