o44 bucking on start up

[ents]

I've got a 6 yr. old 044. It's a work horse (tons of timber cut) and runs great. However, lately it's been a bear to start. I call it compression lock but it may have a different name. Some times I can't pull at all on the rope and other times it gets yank right out of my hand. It's tearing my back up. What causes this bucking and how can it be fixed? There is no compression release on this saw nor is there a port to put one in. I've pulled the muffler and cleaned everything including the plug. Any help here?

Also, I just got a Husky 353 for a trim saw. I've run it about 3 hrs. now and I'm having trouble keeping it idling. I've adjusted (to the limits) per the users manual. The saw will idle for awhile then the rpm will drop, run at that lower rpm then just stop. Sometimes it's hard to start after this happens. Brand new saw here, any thoughts.

Thanks,



Fred

 

[Four Paws]

The 044 Stihl sounds like the timing is too far advanced - flywheel spun slightly due to a broken key or worn keyway? Maybe Andy (Lakeside) or Tom (Thall) can report whether this is a common thing on the 044 as they are both Stihl guys.

The 353 Husky sounds like you have the low speed circuit set too rich. If it idles slower, then quits, you are probably flooding it and fouling your plug. How many turns out do you have your adjustment screws set?

Josh

 

[ents]

Timing on 044

Josh,

Thanks for the thoughts on the 044. I didn't think the timing could be off (as in a 4 stroke engine) but I guess if the fly wheel has slipped --- I'll take it apart tomorrow (since I'm out of the woods for awhile due to rain). I hate tearing it down since it's run so well all these years.

On the 353 -- I only read the manual. I'm not much of a gear head when it comes to adjusting the carb. I know changing one jet may require changing the setting on the others. I'll have to get out to the shed and go over what I have done. I'll get back to you.


Thanks again.

Fred

 

[stihltech]

kick

The module may not be retarded at startup. It should advance after startup. If it does not do this, you fingers become elongated.

 

[2000ssm6]

my 044 has done this also. I thought my fingers were still attached to the pull handle one time. try that with cold hands It is on it's way to Ben for a woods port, I'll add a note about that.

 

[Lakeside53]

I seriously doubt your flywheel has slipped. Its either your ignition module (lifetime warranty if you are the orginal owner), or carbon build-up has raised your compression.

I'd put an elastostart handle on it anyhow... Much nicer on the hand.

 

[GASoline71]

Mine has the elasto-start pull handle. Nice . But mine doesn't do this buckin' thing you speak of.

Gary

 

[tek9tim]

Something might be sticking in the carb allowing a bit of gas to flow into the bottom end while the saw's sitting around, and once you shove that excess of liquid into the top end it locks business up. Dunno. If you say you can't pull on it at all sometimes, I'd be leaning away from ignition timing and toward something else.

 

[Cedarkerf]

Mine does this occasionally but not on a regular basis. But I know it when it happens. My long skinny finger will fit in nice tight spots mow.

 

[1953greg]

i have a 440 w/o decomp that is by far the worst kicking saw i have, even the larger saws when the decomps are not used. have no idea why its so bad but i have to really concentrate to keep my fingers!!!! even w/ elastogrip and gloves.

drop starting is out of the question

but it runs like a banshee

 

[mountainlake]

Cut tons of wood. How's the recoil? Could be wore to where to rope is getting pinched on the way out. Your 353 sounds like the low speed adjuster is to far out, you might need to get rid of the limiters if you can't turn it in any farther. Steve

 

[shadyg]

This may sound too simple, but is the gas you're using fresh. My 044 has done this before and it was just stale gas-mix. And since you say your other saw is also acting-up, ???

 

[ents]

bucking 044

Thanks everyone for the replys. By digging into the archives I found some more instances of hard starting 044s. At least I'm not alone.

So I go out to the shed today to work on these saws. It's about 45 degrees out. 044 starts on second pull, no bucking. 353 starts and I let it idle, and idle, and idle. Seems these saws are not tolerant of the cold. I'll try again tomorrow when it's suppose to be in the teens. I hope I don't have to keep fiddling with the jets on the 353 every time the temps. change. One thing I can say for the 044 is that in six yrs. I have never touched those jets.

By the way, fuel is fresh. In fact I've gone thru about 5 gal. so I know fuel is o.k. Also thought about putting an elasto-start on the 044. Turns out it already had one on it. At least that's what it says on the T-handle. Doesn't help much when it's bucking back.

Fred

 

[ents]

bucking 044 continues

Just came in from the shed. It's about 28 degrees. Tried starting the 044 and it's back to it's bucking. Soooo, looks like this is a cold weather thing. This problem wouldn't be too bad if once it was warmed up it would start normally. However, I run about 20-30 min. between trees (knock one down, drag it out, lop it, measure it, buck it, load it, start all over). In that time the saw cools down enough that the bucking starts again. I guess I'm stuck with it.

Any one out there have a cost effective way to put a relief valve on this machine (no port on the current jug)? One rough estimate from a local Stihl dealer was about $250 for a new jug and valve. That off course didn't
include gaskets and (since it's a new top end) new rings.

I didn't start the 353 since I assumed it's idle problem was also related to the cold. This in a way sucks. So every time the weather changes I have to mess with those jets. I'm thinking I should have stayed with Stihl.


Later,

Fred

 

[ents]

044 bucking P.S.

By the way, after trying to start the 044 I pulled the plug, pulled the start and it turned. Put the plug back in and tried starting again. And again, bucking.

fred

 

[sugarbush]

By the way, after trying to start the 044 I pulled the plug, pulled the start and it turned. Put the plug back in and tried starting again. And again, bucking.

fred

it sounds like your getting fuel into the cyl after its shut off. neddle valve not seating. next time you get it running and have used enough to warm it up, shut off and lay on side with gas cap loose, try starting in 1/2 hour.

 

[ents]

Needle valve sticking

SB

My knowledge of the carb. on these machines is next to nothing. So please bear with me. Which needle valve would be causing this? I know there's the idle, low idle, and fast adjuster (needle valves?). On a 4 stroke there would be a fuel bowl with a needle valve but is there also such a thing on these 2 strokes (I told you I don't know much about this). I do know this machine has run for 6 yrs. without me touching any adjustments on it. Maybe it's time to replace all the needle valves?????


Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try it this afternoon (if it stays cold enough).


Fred

 

[Lakeside53]

The 2 stroke carb has a similar "bowl" and needle that you have seen on a 4 stroke, BUT it's diaphragm based so it will work at all attitudes.

The zama tech guide is attached.



Just try hooking the fuel hose out of the tank removing the fuel filter, apply a pressure tester and pump it up to about 15lb... If it leaks, you likely need to replace the inlet needle valve.

 

[ents]

2 stroke bowl

Thanks for the Zama guide. You know what they say about a picture is worth a 1k words. Here there is the pics. and the words.

Thru out many posts folks talk about vac/pres. testers. Seems Mity-Vac is the choice if one wanted to invest. There are dozens of different testers by MV. If one were to invest in an all around excellent MV which one would one choose. I believe you get what you pay for but I'm not a rich man so which model is a good all around quality tool?


The only problem I see here is that I'm going to start tearing this machine down (just to see what makes it tick). I've done this since I was a kid (watches, phones, t.v.s, pumps). The only other problem that I see is the extra parts I always have left over once it's back together again.


Thanks in advance.



Fred

 

[RiverRat2]

Mity vac is great but

You need a pressure tester not a vacumm pump. However, here is the poor mans way to do it. Go to wally world to the sporting goods department, They have a squeeze bulb pump for airing up soccer bals etc it has a little thumbwheel valve on it,,, heck a bicycle pump will work,,, then go to the autoparts or cycle shop and get a 0-15 pressure dial type low pressure 4-wheeler tire pressure guage (they may have one @ wally world) it will probably have a plunger in the throat of it for depressing the shraeder valve on tires,,, you may have to remove it,,,get you a foot or so of vacumm line and a plastic tee fitting, a slip on straight fitting and a few ty-raps and you are in business,,,, remove needle for airing up soccer balls and set aside, install t fitting, cut short piece of hose pace on top of t, install guage, place remaining hose on other end of t, install ty-raps install straight running fitting in end of hose w/ tyrap,,, Viola,,,,,, you have a tester, make a hook on the end a piece of # 12 solid copper wire,,, opne the fuel tank and fish out fuel line/filter, Remove fuel filter, install remaining fitting end from your tester, pump to between 8-15 and it should hold with out leaking down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1