oh for pete's sake

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ramanujan

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So my boss bought me a new ms200t two days ago. yesterday i was pruning a large fir, working near the top just with a hand saw, 200t on my belt. rappel down a few feet and the saw sits on a limb beside me and i gently pull it off, (being very nice with this new saw you know) and drop it down to my side, expecting it to fall the usual 2". nope. 60' down, never hits a limb even, right onto a large large rock. arghh. ????ed screwgate biners i'll never use another.
 
About a year ago, I was just about to start my way up a tree to do a deadwooding job. Just before I was to leave the ground I realized that the delta link (pictured below for those that are confused) which attaches my Grillion of my lanyard setup to my belt had come open. Made me wonder how long it had been like this......... but for the sake of my nerves, I figure it must have rattled open in the truck on the way to the job. Ya right! Needless to say, my lanyard is now attached with a Petzl Ball Lock 'biener.............hopefully that sucker won't come open.
 
My buckingham lanyard has two rings.

25%20Chainsaw.jpg
 
Kevin, thats the same type of laynard that i use and so far i have been very happy with it:)
 
don't those lanyards have a warning on them "do not use with a saw that weighs more than 15lbs" or something like that? i would be concerned that it would break in a situation where you would not want it to.
 
Yes, that's true.
15lbs. max.
That`s plenty for any top handled saw, it's rated for 200lb. breaking strength.
 
My question is can you cut and then chunck the saw without worrying about it breaking??
 
Tex,
If the saw lanyard breaking strength is 200 lbs and the saw weighs 8 lbs, that is better than 20-1 margin.

My current Echo has survived 2-3 falls in the last 3.5 years. It's still running strong. I do not like the long saw lanyards, they always end up inbetween the bar and the log. I use a short lanyard with ring girth hitched on the handle. Unhook to use, then hook it back up. If it gets jerked out of my hand it won't pull me off a limb with it. Saws are cheap, my body is expensive.
If my saw gets caught, I can secure it to a limb with a loop runner or lanyard so I can use both hands to free it without worrying about it dropping.
 
I haven't experienced any problem with it and I`ve never heard of anyone else having a problem.

What force does a 7lb. saw being dropped 50" develop?
 
Originally posted by Kevin

What force does a 7lb. saw being dropped 50" develop?
I do not know the exact formula, but for a general rule of thumb I've assumed a load's force could double for every foot of freefall.

7-8 lb dropping 4 feet could be as much as 120 lbs impact force. But you would subtract from that since the saw would not freefall the entire distance. The lanyard is stretchy and would slow the saw for most of the fall. Depending on the elasticity of your lanyard, it could be as little as 30-40 lbs force. Still more than I want jerking on my saddle.
 
I took my first chainsaw cut because of a lanyard, I think. Tension build-up in three 12'' to 16'' dbh wind blown sweetgums. I was tied in to a tall pine a few steps away,and working from the tip down,no big deal.


When I found the magic spot they exploded and it was every man for himself.If I could have abandoned the saw she would have hit the ground and not the top of my thigh.

I only use the saw "accessory'' strap now.


The swing from a chainsaw connected by a lanyard keeps me a little off balance, banging around below.

If I need a lanyard,i'll throw a loop runner on too.
 
My lanyard never gets in the way of my cutting. It is just a section of rope with a snap and a twist-lock at the other end.

Holds my 020 great.

I like having it so I can cut and chunk pieces of spar, etc. If not chuncking, pushing.

I can cut, flip the saw out of my hand, grab the leash(lanyard) to cushion the fall and push. I know that took a while to say but it only takes a half second to do one handed.

I have had some terrible saw snatchers with both the 020 and the echo. Both on pieces of spar. Jumping things that I had no business jumping. For me, the ring popped off the saws, but not before making me feel drawn and quartered.

Now, I have noticed that the snap comes of the saw if I am cutting big wood. That way, it is the best of both, free saw and attached saw.

I have noticed there are leash people and variations of clip people. I have seen the leashless drop saws on many occasions.

165 - many of the guys here use a "U" bolt on the echo handle and slide that over a hook on their side. A good one handed setup.

No right or wrong, just my .02

Nathan
 
any improved saftey stats about saw leashes? i've never used one with the feeling that, i'd rather let the go than have it tied to me if some thing happened. why do you guys choose to use them?
 
The lanyard must allow the saw to hang below the climbers feet per ANSI (FWIW).

I have it so i can easily discard it when working, iethe the panic throw or just a quick release whwn chunking or such.

I find it much mor convieniant when making multiple cuts to let it idle on the strap when hanging. Especialy when freefalling a lot of brush. make a few cuts, reposition, make a few cuts, turn it off hook it and climb.

Have you looked at Greame's vids where the saw is flopping around on his lanyard when he jumps off the spar onto the line set in an adjacent tree? Now that is too much!:D
 
Simply put, after making a cut and letting off the throttle, I can do other things like chunck wood or just move to the next limb. I don't have to re-hook my saw.

double for every foot of free fall?? No way. 10lb saw

Foot 1 = 2*10lb = 20lb

Foot 2= 2*20lb=40lb

Foot 3= 2*40lb= 80lb

Foot 4= 2*80lb = 160lb

Foot 5= 2*160lb = 320lb

Foot 6= 2*320lb = 640lb

I think that is what you meant.

I dropped my 020 when pulling up my climbing line - it fell about 25 feet before hitting the end of my line - it didn't tear me in half and tear the tree down.

I understand what you are getting at but can't answer it myself.

Terminal velocity should play a role.

Please excuse any excess sarcasm

Nathan
 
Screw Links

Looking at Shane's attachment of the Delta Link brought back a VERY unpleasant memory of 1989- we use similar screw gate links on parachutes to connect the chute's numerous suspension lines to the canopy risers. I had just finished a jump and went to flake out the canopy when all the lines (similar to 550 cord) flew off one of the 4 screw gated links, which had opened sometime after I touched down. I had a long heart to heart with the Team Rigger who had had the whole thing apart a few days earlier for some routine maint and then never secured the gate. I shudder to think what would have happened if all those lines had parted company with the link (and riser) close to the ground, little was holding them on except tension. Since then I do not trust the d*mn things, even though this was a situation due to human error. Lock biners seem the way to go here... but we still use the screw gated connector links on chutes, albeit covered with a clear plastic protector.
 
I used to use the hook, climb, unhook, cut, hook method until one day, I was is a good rhythm. Then my ground guy asked me a question in between the cut and hook and $210 later I am using my breakaway lanyard again.....

Dan
 
I have one of those lanyards and I forget, How much pull is it suposed to take for the break-away feature to go
 
i believe at short drops the rule of thumb is :
[({Drop in feet}+1) x {weight in pounds} = 'Z' Foot/Pounds of force]. Going beyond 8' or so things getting more complicated, speed becoming more of a component to increase the force more dramatically, and with higher math. So 10', 15' you can know it is gaining quickly towards failure for anything of real mass on a 6k line.

So that at zero drop, 10# has the force of it's own weight [({0' Drop}+1) x {10#}=10'# of force.). Whereby, you could slide it over a 9# sensitivity switch and it would trigger it. And the further you drop it, the more force it will have; but it will always weigh the same, strictly speaking "pounds" only refers to weight, not force; kilonewtons and foot pounds refer to force, taking motion into consideration.

If you drop 10#, 1 foot, it will have ~20foot pounds of force [({1'drop} + 1) x {10#} = 20'# of force]. 4' drop with 10# would be ~50'#s <read : approximately 50 foot pounds (of force)>.

It is similar to: if you drop that force in a 1 square foot area = 50 '#s of force per square foot there. Drop that into 2 square feet landing flatly, then 25'#s of force/square foot etc. In both examples there is a finite calculable amount, accounting for distance and weight, nothing coming about, or disapearing magically. So that a 500# log that drops 5' has ~3000'#s [(5+1) x 500] on a line (probably dropping even further as the line stretches, adding to things!!!!). Now, if that is in a simple pulley redirect, that ~3000'#s of force; powers a 2/1 machine on the redirect/support system (pulley redirects braking force to above load), so the pulley, support/anchor and attatchments take a 6000'#s hit, as the line and friction device take a 3000'# hit! Now that is only realized if you offer that much resistance in opposition (friction) so that running it, would not invoke that much force, only as much as the total 'drag' on the line called out from it.

The Law of Energy Conservation commands that these numbers accumulate like this, for the same reasons as in Mechanical Advantage levers, pulleys, ramps etc. That all that energy x time, distance must be accounted for, arcing a prybar 30"s to move the other end 1" lift gives ~30/1 leverage, a pulley system that you pull 5x as much line (with 5 pulls on load), yields ~5/1 power, a 4'drop increase force adding about 4xload before speed (+ its own force of just being a certain mass sitting still) must be realized strongly. All exactly the same but diffrent, ruled by the same law. That is so pervasive that it demands that all of the archived calories, pressure etc. of fossil fuels, create this dynamic explosive force, for that energy of calories didn't just disapear, energy changes over to diffrent forms, it doesn't appear and disapear. Even 'fertilizer' is an encapsulate of energy, and 'passes it ' to new growth, it all must be accountable, and in balance, for even E=MC squared, for everything is in this balance.

Breakaway lanyard can have 2 systems i think; 1 to deacellerate by having so much give through stretch to buffer the force, also stitches that shear open disapating whatever force that takes. System 2 would be to be a mechanical fuse that would shear/ seperate at so much force; so that you would only incur the weight of a saw drop on your bod, not one caught in a top (then it would shear or 'blow the fuse"). So of the total force of pull, you only oppose 200'#s; so thereby only incur that, and it is trying to deaccelerate it as it goes into that.
 
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