Old Growth Cedar Windthrow. What's a fair price for a landowner?

[checkthisout]

If you are super worried about getting ripped off then plan on spending a week or two on the site and get a load slip with every truck, its entirely to easy to slip a load or two by when the homeowner isn't home, most guys are honest enough to not do that although it still happens, or break down and hire a forester its their job to keep an eye on the logger (among other things)

Well, I wanted to stay on the site and watch the work anyways. I enjoy hearing those big saws and smelling the 2 stroke exhaust, diesel fumes and freshly tilled dirt. :msp_smile:

 

[checkthisout]

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you're out on the peninsula... to be honest when you said ya got 6' diameter trees my first thought was no f'n way... anyway most of the logging I do I don't get paid until it goes to the mill and the landowner don't get paid either, just how I do business... wish the mill would pay before maybe then I could afford fuel... its unlikely as Hel that the mills will pay a lump sum for an unknown quantity of wood, and even more unlikely that they are going to pay before it crosses their gate, the mills are cagier then the loggers (and that's say'n somethin).

If the loggers are going to give you 40% then that's a pretty good deal, there is a bunch of work involved in getting wood out of the woods, and it involves some pretty big and expensive machines. When its all over and the smoke has cleared the logger will probably make about as much as you or less (most likely less). If the ground yer on is fairly flat, as in no Sherpas or balay lines to walk the property line, their biggest danger is going to be those windfall pick up sticks logs, Bucking big wood like that is always fun but throw in the up in the air and who knows where its going once its free and its very possible some one is going to the hospital.

It been many years since I have had any kind of involvement with shake blocks but my understanding is they buck into rounds and split on site then stack em on flat bed trucks to take em to the mill, if'n that's still the case then you really want someone else to do the work for you, cutting blocks takes a darn good saw hand, and splitting em is brutal back braking work,

There are mills/brokers that take ceder in the Puget Sound area it just might cost an arm and yer first born to truck them out there,

If you really want to get more money sit on em until the housing market and economy picks back up a little bit, Best of luck to ya though.

Yeah no bluffing. I got big trees and they are up off the ground although that doesn't seem to dictate whether they contain rot or not. Just how easy they are to retrieve.

The 3 mills I stopped at all processed whole logs. They all had excavators with processor heads that they used to buck the logs to the correct length for whatever product they want to produce.

 

[checkthisout]

Absolutely put this off if you can. The market is terrible right now. As an example my friend contracts the hauling of spaults from a number of mills. At one time they were hauling as many as 110 chip trailers/month. He told me they had hauled 2 this month. Most mills are sitting on a lot of inventory and they are not going to be hungry for the wood to pay top dollar.

Interested to know where this is at. I see salal and shot berry bushes in the picture so I would assume right along the coast. That means to me mostly shingle wood. If true the $850/cord is a good price.
As for costs to cut the wood I would think 300/cord would be in the neighborhood but there are variables. Closest road to fly to? Will it have to be improved?

You're right not to build a road in until ready to harvest.
I might be able to give you a reference to someone if I knew where you were at.
You'd probably get more selling on a cutout but you need to be able to trust the mill.

I see you're familiar with the market where I am at.

That seems to be the general consensus. Put it off and wait for better market conditions and for the recently started rains to stop.

What's your opinion on the risks I take by getting money on cutout basis? Other than dishonesty, I am also worried about the possibility of the mill possibly going bankrupt before I get paid.

I realize I'm being a bit paranoid but it's one of those things where I am trying to use previous life experience to make better decisions.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Humptulips]

It really just depends on the mill if they are trustworthy enough for selling on a cut out.
I know a few guys from the Lake Quinault area. My friend who hauls the spaults has a pretty good idea who to trust in a larger area. Forks to Hoquiam.

If you want to hang around and watch the block cutters you better start learning spanish. Almost all the block cutters and most of the mills are mexican.

One more thought and it is about spaults. Are you going to be happy about a lot of spaults on your land when they get done? I'd ask about it. Even if they load the logs out they will want to cut blocks out of the remains and that means spaults.

 

[StihlKiwi]

Whats a spault?

 

[checkthisout]

It really just depends on the mill if they are trustworthy enough for selling on a cut out.
I know a few guys from the Lake Quinault area. My friend who hauls the spaults has a pretty good idea who to trust in a larger area. Forks to Hoquiam.

If you want to hang around and watch the block cutters you better start learning spanish. Almost all the block cutters and most of the mills are mexican.

One more thought and it is about spaults. Are you going to be happy about a lot of spaults on your land when they get done? I'd ask about it. Even if they load the logs out they will want to cut blocks out of the remains and that means spaults.

One of the three mills I stopped at were Mexicans. They were the ones that sarcastically offered to sell me their Mill.

The other two operators made me aware that it's best to take the logs out whole as there will be less spalts but that it's still going to make a mess of my property. They both told me (without me asking) that they would stack the crap in the place of my choice. And no, that doesn't make happy. Having lots of firewood will make me happy but I am willing to tolerate the mess in exchange for money and having the timber removed by me rather than thieves.

I need a lot of gravel. I have a pit lined up but I am going to do a test dig and check the quality of the pit run. (Old riverbed close by) so perhaps I will have a large hole in which I can place some of the spalts.

They did some clearing for a road down the way. It's dumbfounding how much timber is buried underneath that loam. That old growth just doesn't decay.The forest floor is 4 feet thick with 12 inch diameter logs crisscrossing each other and covered in a blanket of salal, huckleberry and moss.

 

[checkthisout]

Whats a spault?

The chunks of wood that are rotten, knotted or too curvy to turn into useable product.

 

[StihlKiwi]

The chunks of wood that are rotten, knotted or too curvy to turn into useable product.

Oh yep. We call them slovens, or offcuts. Only good for chips/pulp

 

[northmanlogging]

be very very careful about digging your own gravel pit, a little bit and no one will notice, a bunch and you have fish and wildlife, DNR, "the COUNTY", and whomever happens to have the mineral rights to your property all over you, like white on rice. Be sure to get the proper permits for that kind of thing, logging a guy can pirate a few loads out and no one is the wiser, or cares, digging big holes in the ground can potentially upset the ground water situation, making a whole bunch of people very unhappy with you when their well is suddenly dry, or that salmon creek that is fed by underground streams dries up

 

[checkthisout]

be very very careful about digging your own gravel pit, a little bit and no one will notice, a bunch and you have fish and wildlife, DNR, "the COUNTY", and whomever happens to have the mineral rights to your property all over you, like white on rice. Be sure to get the proper permits for that kind of thing, logging a guy can pirate a few loads out and no one is the wiser, or cares, digging big holes in the ground can potentially upset the ground water situation, making a whole bunch of people very unhappy with you when their well is suddenly dry, or that salmon creek that is fed by underground streams dries up

Already permitted. The previous owner has 1/2 mineral rights except gravel. :msp_tongue:

 

[Gologit]

Another thing to think about.

I'm not advocating any kind of illegal behavior but if you can do your little project in the summer time you might be better off.

All the people in the regulatory agencies are fairly busy in the summer and if you've forgotten to dot an I or cross a T they might not notice. Or, faced with a huge workload for which they're understaffed, they might let you off with a warning or a correction notice.

In the winter they're under-worked. And bored. And, to help justify their existence, they go out and look for things to do. Don't make a target of yourself.

 

[redprospector]

be very very careful about digging your own gravel pit, a little bit and no one will notice, a bunch and you have fish and wildlife, DNR, "the COUNTY", and whomever happens to have the mineral rights to your property all over you, like white on rice. Be sure to get the proper permits for that kind of thing, logging a guy can pirate a few loads out and no one is the wiser, or cares, digging big holes in the ground can potentially upset the ground water situation, making a whole bunch of people very unhappy with you when their well is suddenly dry, or that salmon creek that is fed by underground streams dries up

We live in the land of the free, and the home of the over-regulated it seems.
Exactly what is it that we buy when we purchase a piece of ground?

Andy

 

[redprospector]

You're probably right. I'm looking for a piece of dirt to buy so I can set up a little mill, store logs, and whatever else I decide. Hahaha. Wish me luck, it appears I'm going to need it.

Andy

 

[RandyMac]

I'm thinking since shakes are usually new construction, which is soft right now, consider making split rails and posts.
The market for decorative fencing seems to be stronger.

 

[Gologit]

We live in the land of the free, and the home of the over-regulated it seems.
Exactly what is it that we buy when we purchase a piece of ground?

Andy

We don't buy anything when we buy ground, we just pay for the privilege of occupying it until we die or go broke.

Sometimes we get to the point where we're not paying much...but we're always paying something. To somebody. Usually it's somebody who couldn't do what we do but isn't a damn bit shy about telling us that what we're doing is wrong.


Sometimes I don't know if I have ground or it has me. We live in an ever increasing spiral of environmental complexity and regulatory compliance. I don't see that changing any time soon. I deal with it. I have to.

But...I'd do it again. It's a helluva ride.


P.S....I do get to park wherever I want.

 

[redprospector]

We don't buy anything when we buy ground, we just pay for the privilege of occupying it until we die or go broke.

Sometimes we get to the point where we're not paying much...but we're always paying something. To somebody. Usually it's somebody who couldn't do what we do but isn't a damn bit shy about telling us that what we're doing is wrong.


Sometimes I don't know if I have ground or it has me. We live in an ever increasing spiral of environmental complexity and regulatory compliance. I don't see that changing any time soon. I deal with it. I have to.

But...I'd do it again. It's a helluva ride.


P.S....I do get to park wherever I want.

Yeah, parking, that seems to be at a premium now.
We own 5 lots in town right now. Evidently folks in town frown on parking a skidder, dozer, feller buncher, masticator, firewood processor, portable sawmill, and about 50 cords of firewood logs in town. The Bobcat's ok though.

Andy

 

[Humptulips]

I'm not advocating any kind of illegal behavior but if you can do your little project in the summer time you might be better off.

All the people in the regulatory agencies are fairly busy in the summer and if you've forgotten to dot an I or cross a T they might not notice. Or, faced with a huge workload for which they're understaffed, they might let you off with a warning or a correction notice.

In the winter they're under-worked. And bored. And, to help justify their existence, they go out and look for things to do. Don't make a target of yourself.

Very true, water is your enemy. Anyone looks and finds a trickle of water it can be a problem.
We have a lot of trickles in the winter, fall and spring. Summer time is best.

 

[checkthisout]

Very true, water is your enemy. Anyone looks and finds a trickle of water it can be a problem.
We have a lot of trickles in the winter, fall and spring. Summer time is best.

A DNR forester walked the land with me. We then filled out much of the permit on my computer right there on site. We then drove back to the DNR office where he printed the necessary environmental maps which we attached to the permit.

I then went over to a different part of the office where I dropped the permit off and wrote the gals a check.

They approved my permit 10 days later.

 

[checkthisout]

I'm not advocating any kind of illegal behavior but if you can do your little project in the summer time you might be better off.

All the people in the regulatory agencies are fairly busy in the summer and if you've forgotten to dot an I or cross a T they might not notice. Or, faced with a huge workload for which they're understaffed, they might let you off with a warning or a correction notice.

In the winter they're under-worked. And bored. And, to help justify their existence, they go out and look for things to do. Don't make a target of yourself.

A DNR rep walked the land with me and then helped me fill out the permit. Him and the office gals proofread it.

All in all they spent about 4 hours with me.

Honestly, it was actually a really pleasant experience.

 

[checkthisout]

Would it be bad if I went in with my own equipment (not me but a pro operator friend of mine who works for cheap) and stacked the logs so a self-loader could take them to the mill?

My reason for doing it this way is simply because I am turning the area into a campsite when I'm done.

The loggers could build me a rough road but I would need to sync up their presence with a dumptruck for hauling gravel from a nearby pit. In other words I'd have to get them to stick around to load the truck at the pit while the dump takes gravel down to the site.

Of course. I'm starting to ask too many questions.

My gut sense tells me I should just stay out of it (as others have said) and let the pros handle it all.

I'll take some more pics next time I'm out. I assume you guys are always open to viewing good wood ####.