Old Growth Cedar Windthrow. What's a fair price for a landowner?

[Humptulips]

I called a Bureau scaler this morning, he told me they measure the bins at the mills after the wood is processed.

He basically sounds like he could be my eyes if I wasn't able to count? :msp_razz:

Wow, If that's how they scale I would run away from them as fast as I can. Those bins are never going to be filled perfectly square to the top of the bin. They will be rounded off on top and everything above the bin will be lost to you by that method. Go look at some of the bins. Measure the bin and then the actually blocks. There will be a difference. I can't believe a mill would set still for scaling like that either. Besides that there could be a dispute on how many bins were delivered and how is the scaler to know if the blocks are gone.
Everybody figures by the area in the face of your pile. 64 square feet in a cord of shake blocks, 96 square feet in a cord of shingle blocks.
I'd take truck scale. I never heard of anyone paying by the size of the bins.

 

[hammerlogging]

Scaler: The person who figures out the actual volume of your logs, and you will be paid based on that figure.

Don't forget, also "chief of intergossip communications"

 

[checkthisout]

Wow, If that's how they scale I would run away from them as fast as I can. Those bins are never going to be filled perfectly square to the top of the bin. They will be rounded off on top and everything above the bin will be lost to you by that method. Go look at some of the bins. Measure the bin and then the actually blocks. There will be a difference. I can't believe a mill would set still for scaling like that either. Besides that there could be a dispute on how many bins were delivered and how is the scaler to know if the blocks are gone.
Everybody figures by the area in the face of your pile. 64 square feet in a cord of shake blocks, 96 square feet in a cord of shingle blocks.
I'd take truck scale. I never heard of anyone paying by the size of the bins.

Acquiring useful and accurate information is hard work. Getting a hold of the right people is even harder.

I called a different mill today and he discouraged any harvesting of cedar with a shovel. Too much broken wood. He wants to cut it into blocks and fly it out. This doesn't make sense to me given the proximity of the road to the site.

I guess everybody has their own way.

 

[slowp]

Don't forget, also "chief of intergossip communications"

One member on here will chastise you for using the term gossip, if the scalers are men. Men don't gossip.
They "exchange information." :rolleyes2:

I believe fishing and hunting information is dispersed along with other informative tidbits. If you listen to the CB, pictures of salmon caught over the weekend, or better than that, smoked salmon brought to the scale shack, can be a highlight of the day.

 

[madhatte]

I believe fishing and hunting information is dispersed along with other informative tidbits.

Pfft. Nobody spends the time on the ground we techs do. You wanna know where the deer are, ask the folks doing survival surveys.

 

[northmanlogging]

Is the survival survey how they determine the good foresters from the bad foresters? The ones that survive get to keep their jobs:rolleyes2:

 

[madhatte]

Is the survival survey how they determine the good foresters from the bad foresters? The ones that survive get to keep their jobs:rolleyes2:

grumblegrumbleNOgrumble

 

[Humptulips]

Acquiring useful and accurate information is hard work. Getting a hold of the right people is even harder.

I called a different mill today and he discouraged any harvesting of cedar with a shovel. Too much broken wood. He wants to cut it into blocks and fly it out. This doesn't make sense to me given the proximity of the road to the site.

I guess everybody has their own way.

Could be in the way their mill is set up. Some mills are not set up for logs so they prefer blocks. If they are set up for logs they can get them cut cheaper but it can be a challenge to figure out what will come out of a log at times. Sometimes a log will turn out to be better then thought but other times a log that looks fair will be buggy and have zero blocks in it.

Then there is the spault problem. If you cut logs you get all the spaults and it costs to get rid of them. Block mills make very little waste so it keeps the overhead down.

You never mentioned how far it is to a road. They can fly a ways reasonably. Lifting out of standing stuff costs though. If you are going to leave trees standing it will run up the cost of a fly so that makes the machinery sound better especially if you plan on putting in a road anyway.

 

[checkthisout]

Could be in the way their mill is set up. Some mills are not set up for logs so they prefer blocks. If they are set up for logs they can get them cut cheaper but it can be a challenge to figure out what will come out of a log at times. Sometimes a log will turn out to be better then thought but other times a log that looks fair will be buggy and have zero blocks in it.

Then there is the spault problem. If you cut logs you get all the spaults and it costs to get rid of them. Block mills make very little waste so it keeps the overhead down.

You never mentioned how far it is to a road. They can fly a ways reasonably. Lifting out of standing stuff costs though. If you are going to leave trees standing it will run up the cost of a fly so that makes the machinery sound better especially if you plan on putting in a road anyway.

Other than a few snags, everything will be left standing. The road I am putting in would make the longest haul to a road about 50 feet.

BTW, how is fishing over there right now?

 

[Humptulips]

Other than a few snags, everything will be left standing. The road I am putting in would make the longest haul to a road about 50 feet.

BTW, how is fishing over there right now?

Not a fisherman but I imagine the rivers are out of shape the way it has been pouring down rain. I was seeing a lot of boats going by but not the last couple days.
Trapping season opens tomorrow and elk season Saturday so I'll be busy after today.

 

[OlympicYJ]

Not a fisherman but I imagine the rivers are out of shape the way it has been pouring down rain. I was seeing a lot of boats going by but not the last couple days.
Trapping season opens tomorrow and elk season Saturday so I'll be busy after today.

Do you trap Hump?

 

[northmanlogging]

Its always surprised me how much flying they use to get the blocks out, what with the price of fuel and how much a helicopter burns per hour, plus the pilots wages etc. you'd think it would be cheaper to hire some sherpas and just pack the wood out by hand....

 

[Humptulips]

Do you trap Hump?

You bet! I am also President of the Washington State Trappers Association.

 

[Humptulips]

Its always surprised me how much flying they use to get the blocks out, what with the price of fuel and how much a helicopter burns per hour, plus the pilots wages etc. you'd think it would be cheaper to hire some sherpas and just pack the wood out by hand....

They move a lot of wood in a hurry. Cheaper then using a gilley. There's a word I bet not many today are familiar with. Basically a homemade ATV they used to use to haul blocks out of the woods. Flying is so much cheaper and easier. Packed 'em out too when I was in school back in the dark ages,$1.35/Hr.

 

[OlympicYJ]

They move a lot of wood in a hurry. Cheaper then using a gilley. There's a word I bet not many today are familiar with. Basically a homemade ATV they used to use to haul blocks out of the woods. Flying is so much cheaper and easier. Packed 'em out too when I was in school back in the dark ages,$1.35/Hr.

My dad and uncle had a shake show and mill and he wound up having his own mill after they split. He had a gilley. Called it a jeep freak lol Very cool to hear you're the trappers association pres.! What do you typically trap for?

 

[Humptulips]

My dad and uncle had a shake show and mill and he wound up having his own mill after they split. He had a gilley. Called it a jeep freak lol Very cool to hear you're the trappers association pres.! What do you typically trap for?

The main ones for me in Grays harbor are beaver, otter, bobcat and civets.

 

[OlympicYJ]

Now how do you live trap an otter? I know about those clamshell live traps for beaver but never heard of it done for otter. Live trap bobcat same way as cougar?

 

[Humptulips]

Now how do you live trap an otter? I know about those clamshell live traps for beaver but never heard of it done for otter. Live trap bobcat same way as cougar?

There are a couple of us in the state building what are known as swim through traps. I make a model that is very effective on otter. They are cage traps but not live traps. They are set underwater in channels, no bait.
The clam shell trap as you call them are effective on beaver however they are expensive and cause excessive damage to the animal. I will not use them.
It is illegal to trap cougar. I don't know anyone that would have a trap big enough anyway.
Bobcat are trapped in live traps with bait or scent as lure.

 

[northmanlogging]

I was under the impression that trapping beaver was a no no? If'n not than I know a whole bunch of people that would probably pay you to get rid of the beavers on their property, especially if the dams they built go with em... the critters are all right I guess its the sudden reclassification as wetlands that bothers most people... how does one cook beaver or otter anyway? There is just too much room for skhool boy humor here by the way.

 

[RandyMac]

you otter know the best part of beaver is the tail.