Opinion on TS420 rebuild

[ZeroJunk]

I guy dropped one off at the shop, my shop, not the dealership.
It's locked up. He's not going to use water.
So, do I use OEM or Chinese ?
It's been 6 or 7 years since I rebuilt a TS 420 at home . Used Chinese, and those guys were happy if they could get a couple of weeks out of one. Demolition stuff.

Anyhow, are the Chinese kits any better, worse, the same.
$200 0r $300 worse ?

 

[huskydave]

The OEM is 5x better quality. Better rings better circlips that won't come apart randomly, better piston better cylinder. Sometimes you get lucky with aftermarket stuff and it works ok but sometimes they fail quickly or the parts don't work when they are new, that has been my experience. The knockoff spark plugs are junk, the aftermarket cheap fuel line is junk aftermarket carbs half of them don't work even when new. Coils, half of them fail early. Cranks are soft, poorly machined and not balanced well bearings don't hold up to long hours, Ignition switches are usually junk. Air filters are not great. Carb kits and gasket sets seem to be fine. Points ignition sets usually junk. I try and Use OEM parts whenever possible.

 

[lone wolf]

The OEM is 5x better quality. Better rings better circlips that won't come apart randomly, better piston better cylinder. Sometimes you get lucky with aftermarket stuff and it works ok but sometimes they fail quickly or the parts don't work when they are new, that has been my experience. The knockoff spark plugs are junk, the aftermarket cheap fuel line is junk aftermarket carbs half of them don't work even when new. Coils, half of them fail early. Cranks are soft, poorly machined and not balanced well bearings don't hold up to long hours, Ignition switches are usually junk. Air filters are not great. Carb kits and gasket sets seem to be fine. Points ignition sets usually junk. I try and Use OEM parts whenever possible.

OEM or nothing. No

 

[ZeroJunk]

Thanks for the replies. I gotta get the dumb thing apart first. It is LOCKED. Not sure if it is the piston or something in the bottom broke.
May need a complete motor, doubt it is worth that.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Repaired as of yesterday, like ya'll care or something.

500I was a day old and run over. Finally got the case half in.

 

[Automender]

I rebuilt a TS420 that I bought for $50 and the guy said it top end issues. It did have sparkplug thread issues but the main problem was the bearing cage on one side came apart and inner race was seized to the crank. Had to cut the race off. Using aftermarket parts I had over $100 in a new crank, jug and piston plus misc. Maybe the crank didn't need to be replaced because the aftermarket crank had the same play as the OEM.
https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/ts420-project-cutoff-saw.356485/

 

[ZeroJunk]

I rebuilt a TS420 that I bought for $50 and the guy said it top end issues. It did have sparkplug thread issues but the main problem was the bearing cage on one side came apart and inner race was seized to the crank. Had to cut the race off. Using aftermarket parts I had over $100 in a new crank, jug and piston plus misc. Maybe the crank didn't need to be replaced because the aftermarket crank had the same play as the OEM.
https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/ts420-project-cutoff-saw.356485/

Still haven't dug in to it. Rebuilding a carb on a little 009 at the moment. Need to get a couple of saws back to the guy that I have had for a week Other one is done. Then I'll dig in to it.

 

[Gord404]

kinda the way I look at it is if I am going to spend the time on a rebuild why would I use a china top end or crank for that matter - if its a junk saw that isn't worth the parts then it becomes a parts saw- NWP makes a good crank and Meteor makes good pistons- best am cylinders are hyway or meteor but like all cylinders I do a little work on them before the are bolted down and ready to go - squish etc

 

[huskydave]

For me its my reputation on the line, if the parts fail quickly and I have to fix the equipment the second time for free and the customer is mad, I am not saving any money. The customer will then go around and bad mouth me, that is the last thing I want. I have actually paid hundreds of dollars for nos OEM parts to get older engines running but when I fix them like this they don't come back. I like to keep things original whenever possible. I get a lot of older engines because no one else in my area will touch them.

 

[ZeroJunk]

For me its my reputation on the line, if the parts fail quickly and I have to fix the equipment the second time for free and the customer is mad, I am not saving any money. The customer will then go around and bad mouth me, that is the last thing I want. I have actually paid hundreds of dollars for nos OEM parts to get older engines running but when I fix them like this they don't come back. I like to keep things original whenever possible. I get a lot of older engines because no one else in my area will touch them.

It is a quandry . I won't charge him anything but parts.
Funny thing is that they may bad mouth you when you didn't charge anything to start with...

I don't give a crap about my reputation because I am the best there is, around here anyway. Take it somewhere else, not like I give a ****.

 

[Gord404]

For me its my reputation on the line, if the parts fail quickly and I have to fix the equipment the second time for free and the customer is mad, I am not saving any money. The customer will then go around and bad mouth me, that is the last thing I want. I have actually paid hundreds of dollars for nos OEM parts to get older engines running but when I fix them like this they don't come back. I like to keep things original whenever possible. I get a lot of older engines because no one else in my area will touch them.

exactly

 

[ZeroJunk]

For me its my reputation on the line, if the parts fail quickly and I have to fix the equipment the second time for free and the customer is mad, I am not saving any money. The customer will then go around and bad mouth me, that is the last thing I want. I have actually paid hundreds of dollars for nos OEM parts to get older engines running but when I fix them like this they don't come back. I like to keep things original whenever possible. I get a lot of older engines because no one else in my area will touch them.

I put one of those Mastermind copy MS660 top ends on a saw for a contractor. One of the port openings wasn't finished and I didn't catch. Ran good but hung a ring.
Forget what it cost me, but I put an OEM top end on it for him.

He had already written me two bad checks for over $500 each.

Sort of why I have a crappy attitude about my reputation with some of these guys.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Finally took the TS420 mostly apart. Piston through exhaust port looked almost new. Scratches on the bore on the intake side. Had to drill out one of the screw heads that hold the filter cover. Full of concrete. Apparently had the filter that came in it and never cleaned. Water came out of it and the filter was almost solid. Concrete dust hardened and caked inside filter cover.

So, I told him I could rebuild it, but if he treated it the same way it would lock up again and it would be my fault obviously. And, I had rather not get in to it.

 

[Gord404]

Finally took the TS420 mostly apart. Piston through exhaust port looked almost new. Scratches on the bore on the intake side. Had to drill out one of the screw heads that hold the filter cover. Full of concrete. Apparently had the filter that came in it and never cleaned. Water came out of it and the filter was almost solid. Concrete dust hardened and caked inside filter cover.

So, I told him I could rebuild it, but if he treated it the same way it would lock up again and it would be my fault obviously. And, I had rather not get in to it.

I don't deal with people like that- take it somewhere else- did you ever get the money part streigtend out?

 

[sean donato]

It's about setting expectations for what the "customer" wants. I do enough side work on this stuff and some people want bottom dollar parts. Usually, I explain in detail why I don't reccomend aftermarket parts, but ultimately leave it up to them. About half the time I can convince them to get something higher quality then the $25.00 ms390 engine off ebay that takes 2 months to show up. Some have been duds some have worked out just fine. It's the time we live in. I've found most the pro/semi pro or enthusiasts will gravitate to oem or higher quality aftermarket anyway.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I don't deal with people like that- take it somewhere else- did you ever get the money part streigtend out?

Yeah, I held some of his stuff hostage .

 

[ZeroJunk]

Well, I wasn't expecting this. Piston and cylinder are fine, bearings are locked up.
No sign of cage coming apart. Not so sure it didn't just get water in it and rust.

 

[Automender]

Seems like these saws have a bearing issue. When I was doing my saw some posted that they had a number of these that they repair for a local shop with bad bearings. My cylinder was fine except for sparkplug threads but piston look eroded on the top surface.

 

[Sidecarflip]

The OEM is 5x better quality. Better rings better circlips that won't come apart randomly, better piston better cylinder. Sometimes you get lucky with aftermarket stuff and it works ok but sometimes they fail quickly or the parts don't work when they are new, that has been my experience. The knockoff spark plugs are junk, the aftermarket cheap fuel line is junk aftermarket carbs half of them don't work even when new. Coils, half of them fail early. Cranks are soft, poorly machined and not balanced well bearings don't hold up to long hours, Ignition switches are usually junk. Air filters are not great. Carb kits and gasket sets seem to be fine. Points ignition sets usually junk. I try and Use OEM parts whenever possible.

Interestingly, I have had excellent results with HF 'Torch' spark plugs in 4 stroke small engines, in fact the one in my Pacific Hydrostar pressure washer (HF) is the original and has been in there for years actually. Might not last in a 2 stroke application but in a 4 stroke, no issue. The other thing to remember is, what is considered a 'domestic; spark plug today is really produced in Mexico. I don't believe there are any made stateside today and I 100% agree on fuel line and carbs. If I buy carbs on Amazonian or wherever, I buy 2 because chances are one will be inoperable as in no QC. Fuel line is an absolute no go.

 

[huskydave]

I had one customer bring in a riding mower, he said it randomly dies. I had it for a few days, started up fine drove it around everything was good, tried letting it sit and it would fire right up. Worked flawlessly. I called him to pick it up and was loading it up and it started acting up bad he said that is what it was doing, he told me he had changed the fuel pump. I assumed it was oem, I look and its an amazon special. I put a Briggs and Stratton vacuum operated fuel pump on it (Mikuni) and never got another call from him. I get stuff in that doesn't run, I change the china plug to a champion or ngk and it fires right up. I have about 400 china plugs in a pail. The carbs well, I tried and 50 percent wouldn't work and that wastes my time having to send stuff back because it is defective. The fuel line is the worst, it crumbles in no time. Customers buy those tune up kits. I tried points sets but the contacts are made of cheap metal and the springs are weak, you can take an oem spring and make an ok replacement but they don't last. I just found that if I buy quality stuff I don't have to worry, if I am pinching pennies I will have a lot more problems. My 2 cents..