Opinions on thin climbing lines.

[MrRecurve]

Hey gang, I am fairly new to climbing although I have been working on the ground for 2 years. I am interested in buying a new climbing line to replace my old samson 16 strand blue streak, and I like the idea of using a 24 strand line like samson velocity or the yale equivalent (blaze?)

I climb in a glide and use a vt and 2 biners. Can anyone offer me some sound advice on this subject?

Thanks for your time, Mr.

 

[BostonBull]

Stay away from Velocity as a climbing line. It has a very tacky coating on it which makes it great as an acess line i.e. footlocking, but once your tied in with some sort of friction hitch your bound to have it bind up on you. The blaze is a great rope as is the fly.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Easiest way to screw up your hands is to force them to grip something small for long periods of time. For me that means no touching myself and using decent sized climbing lines. I spent a couple weeks climbing on a rock climbing line that was 9.5mm and I was really feeling it by the end. (yeah I know it was stupid to climb on thin lines) but keep it in mind, you can only work as long as your hands last.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

When I when to using thinner lines, I knew I wouldn't go back to 1/2". The Blaze is the best I've used so far. Velocity, Fly, and a few mountaineering ropes, were the others I tried.
Those that don't like it, I guess, have a different climbing style, perhaps they do long pulls, dragging their weight up by pulling on just one leg of their rope, I don't know.
It is harder to hold a thin rope, but your grip will improve as you use it a few weeks.
My climbing mostly involves climbing to the top and working my way down. Most of our trees are much less than 100 feet, so there are few times I pull my self up a single strand of rope, and if I do, it's a short pull.
Also a well tied friction hitch and cambium saver reduces the pulling the tail.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Blaze is my favorite for DdRT climbing. Everything about the rope is top rate. Fly is second choice. Never cared for the sticky coating on Velocity.

There seems to be a set of tools that fit climbers in a certain group. These tools make the job easier for this group. The climbers who spend their time out at the ends of the limbs climbing the tree rather than in the center climbing the rope seem to favor leg strap saddles and smaller diameter ropes. This is a bit of a generalization but not too broad.

When a climber makes the shift to smaller ropes the best accessory to get are a pair of sticky gloves. Use the friction of the gloves to take the place of muscle power. Several climbers who started to get tennis elbow have said that they recovered when they used Smurf gloves.

Tim Walsh is going to be doing his Ph. D thesis on the effect of small diameter ropes on grip strength. I think that we all know the results of the test. What Tim will be able to deliver are quantifiable results.

Besides grip strength, consider how heavy the rope is. Working the outer canopy means tailing your rope over and around limbs. That means pulling rope up after you. Reducing that weight is important. People rant about climbers who carry a couple of extra slings with them but never consider the weight of their rope. There are many weight saving considerations these days.

If you want to reduce rope volume and weight by about 30%, get Blaze. If you like to haul extra weight around, stay with half inch.

 

[Tree Machine]

I kinda liked the sticky coating on Velocity, but it wears off, so it's not really fair to judge the rope solely on that characteristic.

It truly depends on your climbing style. I like my blaze OK. I've liked all the 11 mms and like the less stretchy ones better (Sampson Velocity and especially Petzl's Vector) weight being the main factor as I'm one of thse excessive sling carriers, but there's the fact that it opens you up to other worlds besides our traditional friction hitches. On 11 mm you can use all the aerial devices from other disciplines like search and rescue, caving and rock climbing. It's nice to have options besides a friction hitch and DbRT, that is if other methods interest you.

 

[clearance]

I only rappel on rope but is the smaller line up to 6000lbs. breaking strength new? Here we have to use rope that is at least 6000lbs rated. I would use smaller line because I am constantly climbing over 100ft. and it gets heavy, also heavy to pack through the bush. Someone please post manufacturers specs. on the skinny rope. Thanks Jim.

 

[kf_tree]

I only rappel on rope but is the smaller line up to 6000lbs. breaking strength new? Here we have to use rope that is at least 6000lbs rated. I would use smaller line because I am constantly climbing over 100ft. and it gets heavy, also heavy to pack through the bush. Someone please post manufacturers specs. on the skinny rope. Thanks Jim.

i'm surprised you don't just use a parachute.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

I just got into using the Blaze this summer and the weight difference is a very welcome change. The diameter difference is very noticeable. Once the rope breaks in it is easier to climb on!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Clearance,

Where does the 6k# spec come from? Is that C-OSHA or company regs?

 

[clearance]

Tom the 6k is a British Columbia workers comp. reg. they are the same as OSHA down there.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

That is SO weird! I don't know of any other rope access industry that requires such high strength ropes.

This is especially weird since arbos climb on a DdRT system where we are actually supported by two ropes, well, sort of, you know what I mean...The rest of the rope access works on a single rope with strength ratings of 5k#. The only higher ratings are for rope rescue where there is the real possibility of taking on two-person loads. Then, the ratings are up.

In all of the time that I've spent on various rope access forums I have yet to hear of about a rope failure that wasn't directly related to poor rigging. Cases where a rope was allowed to move over a rough edge or something like that. It seems easier for regulators to raise the numbers and think that the workplace is safer. Better to require more body armor to protect from chainsaw cuts. That is a real injury case.

I wonder how many injuries might have been reduced or eliminated if chin straps on helmets were mandatory. It seems that would go further in reducing injuries than having stronger ropes.

I'll step off my Rant Box for a while

 

[clearance]

Tom, the deal here is 6k for ropes and 5k for connecting equipment (biners, rope snaps). Figure 8 descenders are verboten. As far as chinstraps......regulations here state that chinstraps are to worn in any industry when a man is 10ft. or more off the ground or his hardhat could be blown off cause of the wind. Very few climb with chinstraps and only when they are forced to do so. All the guys I have worked with absolutely hate this idea and the guy who thought it up. Thankfully it isn't really enforced with any heart. Some people have chinstraps that stay on the brim of their hat. I lost the one my boss gave me in case a workers comp. rep. showed up. Body armour to protect from cuts we can see coming as people with jobs that they have created from thin air come up with more regs. to somehow justify thier pay. How about wearing pants/chaps on the ground and just jeans in the tree? Body armor would lull people into a false sense of security, kind of like low kick back chain. What we need is no more regulation and more practical training for people. Kind of like the guy walking the tightrope with no net, you can bet your left nut he is alert and focused, so it should be when you are up in a tree with a saw.

 

[darkstar]

i love my 10.5 mill sterling .... i tried out practially every tree climbing rope out there and my shed is full of hanks the help loves umm but im back to my good old rockclimbing lines...light dynamic and very fast .... dark

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Tom, the deal here is 6k for ropes and 5k for connecting equipment (biners, rope snaps). Figure 8 descenders are verboten. As far as chinstraps......regulations here state that chinstraps are to worn in any industry when a man is 10ft. or more off the ground or his hardhat could be blown off cause of the wind. Very few climb with chinstraps and only when they are forced to do so. All the guys I have worked with absolutely hate this idea and the guy who thought it up. Thankfully it isn't really enforced with any heart. Some people have chinstraps that stay on the brim of their hat. I lost the one my boss gave me in case a workers comp. rep. showed up. Body armour to protect from cuts we can see coming as people with jobs that they have created from thin air come up with more regs. to somehow justify thier pay. How about wearing pants/chaps on the ground and just jeans in the tree? Body armor would lull people into a false sense of security, kind of like low kick back chain. What we need is no more regulation and more practical training for people. Kind of like the guy walking the tightrope with no net, you can bet your left nut he is alert and focused, so it should be when you are up in a tree with a saw.

A hardhat without a chin strap is useless for a climber. Although my experience is with the Petzel rock climbing helmets, not those big dorky hardhats they sell at the hardware store for $12.
How do you keep a hat on without a chin strap?

 

[clearance]

Mike-I and every one I know here uses those 'big dorky' hardhats, same as all the fallers and buckers. The orange ones that are made by and say Stihl or Husky on them. The earmuffs and wire mesh facescreen are one unit and snap into the hat. You can raise the muffs and the facescreen or lower them independently. When the earmuffs are down the hat stays on real good. We wear them because they are approved by the workers comp. and they work, they cost about $60 Cdn.. Rock climbing helmets are for rockclimbers, unless they are workers comp. approved you couldn't use them here.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

How come search and rescue, etc. wear helmets instead of hardhats in Canada then? Do they have a different set of rules?

At a competition a guy knew that if he dropped his helmet he would be DQ's. He fixed that by running two loops of electrical tape under his chin and over his hardhat. He left it on the whole day. I asked him if he was going to use a piece of shoelace or throwline on Monday for work. He gave me an odd look and said "No...why???"

 

[MrRecurve]

Thanks for all the replies guys, very helpful. How does the vt go on thin lines? Still grip properly?

Re the helmet/chinstrap issue, here in australia, we also do not have to use straps on our helmets, either in the tree or on the ground. I use a pacific kevlar helmet, one of the new types with the spine vent on top, I dont see the point in climbing with a helmet that can fall off.

Im going to give the fly a go 1st, I like the look of it, is it a samson or a yale rope?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

You'll probably change the way you tie your friction hitch when you go to a smaller diameter line. The friction is different so you might add a wrap.

The eye splice on the Fly, from New England Ropes, is a bit bulky. That's one of the reasons that I like Blaze. It's a more "normal" splice. Fly will pick a bit more because the outer fabric is a bit softer lay than Blaze.

You'll like Fly but I think that you would love Blaze Stay away from sticky Velocity.

 

[darkstar]

yeah tie your head into a chin strap helment ..... then take a fall ...limbs grab the helment and boof ....... [[[[ broke neck simple]]]] ..... never wear a chin strap ..the helment will take off your head ......if you fall and the helment hits anything static ...... id rather my helment come off than my head ... dark