Outdoor wood stoves

[Johnboy]

Well every application is different. I'm heating a 1900 sqft garage, a large barn and our house which is about 4000 sqft.

What is your storage capacity and how much are you heating? My goal is to burn hot and complete and store heat.

I know not all agree on this strategy but my minds pretty much made up that this is best for me.

jb

 

[pipeboy]

holy smokes.... 2000 gal. wow i would imagine quite a heat loss on 2000 gal. just rememember the more heat you have the more heat you have to lose!!

 

[pipeboy]

i would tend to think that you would just lose it slower!

 

[pipeboy]

are you planning to burn with a typical outdoor unit or are you going with a tarm or a garn...or any of these other fancy gasification models??

 

[pipeboy]

i don't know anymore i'm thinkin that i'm going to just get me a classic and be done with it...it seems silly to me that i'm arguing with myself for $1000. i'm thinking that i might take my old electric water heater and turn it into a storage tank and not hook up the electrical on it. that will bring my grand total of gallons to 400. i'm thinking that that should be well more than enough for me.

 

[Crofter]

The heat storage tank is inside Mange's house so where is the heat loss?

 

[bwalker]

With a outdoor boiler less water storage is more.

 

[pipeboy]

i thought he said that it was in his garage...but either way even your hot water heater turns on every now and the even if you don't use it due to heat loss.

 

[Mange]

There is no heat lost to speak of. If I load up the tanks to 80 degrees, and shut the valves (I tested this), I can turn on the valves after 2 weeks with 73 degrees. I have to put radiators and a stove In the basement, I was counting on some heat lost but I got cheated on that....
The stove I use When there is power brakes. I circulates fine without pumps, since I have a tall house, But we use the stove to cook, and a mange without Coffey for more than a few hours is no pretty site

The tanks are isolated with a special mixed foam, 13 cm thick, and dressed with a very thin coat of aluminum.
If air can not move, It can not cool. That is the basic idea of isolation.

The important thing to me was that I would not spend too much time fiddling with the furnest. I do not mind going out there 2-3 times every other day.

My Naibur came here one night and asked what I thought he would do with his system.
After a bit calculating and reasoning, We ordered a furnest to put in front of his existing furnest. This has a 200 liter wood volume, and is filled once a day.
Fire is never put out unless he want to do some maintenance, clean out aches etc.
It is the same as mine But stores the wood instead of heat.
It is not well isolated either, but the heat goes strait up in his house so it does not matter.

 

[Johnboy]

You can insulate a tank pretty well and mass like that is petty difficult to cool down. I'm planning on buying a Garn. I figure if I raise that much water to high temp I can heat my buildings for more than 24 hours on one burn. You can go back up this thread a ways to my first posts to see the hackles that can be raised on this subject so I won't drone on again about that.

My buddy buried a 2400 gallon tank from a milk truck which was already insulated but he wrapped it in a double layer of insul-tarp scavenged off of a slab job. Works great. He had the limitation of not being able to use any type of outdoor boiler since he's right downtown and didn't have much room anyway but he did have some garage space so he hammered out his garage floor (very very old slab needed replacing anyway) and backhoed out and dropped her right in there and re-poured the slab. Now when he burns the relativeley small boiler with secondary burn chamber, and the house quits calling for heat, instead of smoldering the fire, it keeps burning hot and dumps the hot water into the tank. He's gone for long periods during the day so he comes home to hot water.

Anyway pipeboy, like I mentioned in my previous post, you could take a quick run down the I to see a Garn in action near Sparta. Might not be right for you but looking never hurt anyone.

Cheers
jb

 

[Mange]

Mange what material is your holding tanks made of?

I am sorry, I missed this Crofter.

3mm regular furnest iron, welded not cast. I the isolation I think I mentioned.

 

[Mange]

This is almost 10000 liters!!!!!!!
That is a lot.
Afreind of mine has a house built of grey stones from the year 1687, he has 385 meters square, I have no idea how many feet that is, but it is more then 2,5 homes here. He has the same system as I do, and 3000 liters acc.
It never goes bellow 45 degrees, and He never burn everyday, not often more than 3 hours.


I hope you have done some calcylation off this.

Here we concidder 1000 liters is good up to 100 meters square, in this climate. Sort of a hip shot.
I would say 10000 liters would cover at the least 1000 meters square! (in the same climate as here.)

 

[Mange]

How much wood does he consume?
how much time and effort does he put in?
How much heatlost is there? did he insulate all around the tank? I f so What holdes it Up?

Oops I think I have a brainfart again........

Never mind.

 

[timberdog]

list of sites

Ben W. I would like to view a list of the sites in reference to the Classic.

Testing from Wornok Hersey shows Classic emissions of 6.2gph of particulate emissions. That is well under the EPA standard of 7.5gph for a new generation indoor airtight wood stove.

Also while attending a stainless steel workshop the issue of which alloy is best suited for this application came up. 409 titanium enhanced was most preferred by the stainless supplier for added corrosion resistance, with excellent formability, heat transfer, and expansion characteristics. The Classic is available in both mild and 409.

While doing my homework I toured Central Boiler, Wood master, and Heatmor manufacturing facilities. They are all within 90 miles of each other. I would suggest that anyone who really wants to know the difference, do the same. What is tested and documented by independent labs proves a lot more to me then hearsay and speculation about design. BTW most bad experiences with any of these units will generally prove to be, improper installation (cheaply installed) , or careless use and lack of maintenance of the operator. Thanks TD.

 

[timberdog]

Ghitch75, Iwould also like the brand name of the pipe you carry. Is it flexible or rigid, by the sound of it, it comes in rolls. Thanks, T.D.

 

[ghitch75]

pipe boy you won't like shoveling out your ashs out of the classic and if you every want to burn coal you can't no grates and as far as having a 2000 gallon tank for storge you well get nothing done than putting wood in it.....the guy down the road from me has one i put in a 7300 it hold 200 gallons and he is heating 2800sft house and a 3800sft barn and his water heater and he is getting 36 hour burns at 10 degress and over 48 hours if it's in the 30's and above and in the summer he burns over 7 days to heat he hot water.....as far as installs go i have seen how everyone puts them in (around here anyway) no one uses zone vavles to to control the water going to there units(water heat furance ,boiler ect..) all of the do a loop hook up going from one unit to the other and the can't use it in the summer to heat the hot water and run the A/C at the same time and in the winter when it's running on off cycle there still pulling btu's from the air to water coil and it over shoots the temp in the house no control so you open the front door or a window to cool the house down...my hook everything is controled to get the longest burn possable with least amont of wood...the water heat hook the other guys do is very dangerous they let the tank get to 180 degress (or what ever the boiler is set at) and use a mixing vavle to temper the water down coming out and in hard water areas the vavle will stick and someone will loose some hide off the hands or fingers...i use a braze plate heat exchanger and a pump and augastat and then you st the temp as you like 110, 120, 130...ect and that all the hotter the tank gets ...back to the classic all the ashs lay in the bottom on the steel and ashs are very acidit and if you don't keep the cleaned out it will eat the steel out and you have to let your fire go out to clean it out..with grates and a ash pan or ager you sould never have to let your fire go out.....

bwalker i'll post when i have time have to go put one in today and i'll post it on wensday been very busy...

 

[ghitch75]

come in 550ft rolls and it will bend a 3ft radius logstore in the brand name and it's made in demark

 

[timberdog]

Ghitch, an electric three way zone valve is the easy way to stop overshooting problems when hooked into the loop like you described. This also allows domestic water heat in the summer if you like, and you can run your a/c too. Leaving the valve maunually opened in the winter will keep all of the ductwork warm and elimnate cold drafts each time the furnace cycles. It also usually results in warmer floors which most customers feel is an added benifit. Also the furnace will cycle less often, which uses less electricity. This can work for the forced air and domestic water as well. Hard water areas don't like brazed plate exchangers because of the super tight tolerance. They work great with clean or soft water, which will also prevent the anit-scald valves from sticking. Also the valve should be rated with the ansi 1016 and 1017 source point approval for an anti-scald device. Lesser mixers will always give highly fluctuating temperatures.The mixing valve also doesn't use electricity.
As for cleaning ashes, I only start one fire in my box per year. Once a month clean out with a shovel takes less than ten to fifteen minutes and I have a commercial size stove, burn mostly junk wood. Heating more than six thousand square feet for four buildings. Of these two are very old and poorly insulated. Also I keep my 10,000 gallon outdoor pool heated. My heat load is more than average. Ash clean out is minimal. I have installed over 250 Classics. The dealer has a repurchase guarentee and he hasn't bought one back yet.
My personl thought of coal. I burn wood, its free, renewable, and adds no net increase in greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere. T.D.

 

[ghitch75]

is this what your talking about?...i'v put in at last count 236 and over a 1000 gas/oil boiler systems and count less forced air systems....been in the HVAC game for 21 years

 

[timberdog]

Ghitch, that is exactly what I was referring too with the three way zone valve. There are also manual valves for the same purpose. Is that one of your installs? Looks good, a lot cleaner then most. If the customer wants to run in the summer along with a/c then we generally insulate the lines inside too. I have a supplier for the Logstor, Don't you find it awful rigid? I had a five foot sample, it just seemed that it would be hard to work with. Thanks for the pic. I respect your experience I've only done about 450 jobs. T.D.