Paging Slowp

[OregonSawyer]

I have read plenty on here to figure out that you are a Forester. I am currently seeking a degree in Forest Engineering through OSU to become a Forester. I have a couple of questions for you...

First off, the reason I am posting this on the forum versus in a PM is because I thought perhaps there are others that may find this information valuable and pertaining to them.

I am curious as to what the job market is like for Forester's? I have seen a few openings in my state (which I prefer) but I am not sure what the competitiveness is for the hiring process. I am also trying to figure out if I would be better served only completing two years of schooling and try to get into the Forestry field in some capacity (ie Forestry Aid/Technician) then working my way up "the ladder?" Obviously the latter of those two options is more appealing to me for fiscal reasons.

If you could fill me in on any info that you feel may be relevant to somebody in my position I would greatly appreciate it!

BTW anybody else with experience don't hesitate to reply. The only reason my title targeted Slowp is just because she is the only one I am certain is a Forester on here.

 

[madhatte]

I'm one too, and I can tell you that there are two truths you need to be aware of regarding Forestry right now:

1) jobs are scarce
2) foresters are retiring way faster than the colleges are replacing them

From this I deduce that there will be a serious shortage of field experts in the very near future. That said, if you're interested in the field, this is probably a very good time to be getting into it. I could be wrong, but I don't think that I am.

My recommendation: start with a 2-year degree. Work a couple of seasons on the fireline. Decide whether it's really for you or not. If so, go back to school get at least a BS, and dive in head-first. It's in-depth local knowledge that's lacking, and the only way to get it is to be out in it all the time for a long time. Experts are made, not born.

 

[OregonSawyer]

I'm one too, and I can tell you that there are two truths you need to be aware of regarding Forestry right now:

1) jobs are scarce
2) foresters are retiring way faster than the colleges are replacing them

From this I deduce that there will be a serious shortage of field experts in the very near future. That said, if you're interested in the field, this is probably a very good time to be getting into it. I could be wrong, but I don't think that I am.

My recommendation: start with a 2-year degree. Work a couple of seasons on the fireline. Decide whether it's really for you or not. If so, go back to school get at least a BS, and dive in head-first. It's in-depth local knowledge that's lacking, and the only way to get it is to be out in it all the time for a long time. Experts are made, not born.

Thanks, I will strongly consider your advice. I have an additional follow-up question that I just realized. What do you have a degree in? Would you recommend Forest Engineering? I am not sure if you are familiar with OSU's FE program or not? The only other guy I have talked to that was a Forester (just retired 2-3 years ago) has a Silviculture degree.

A little background on me I suppose...
I am 25 and have worked in a sawmill (as a sawyer for 2.5 years but have done everything else) from when I graduated high school until this past fall. I really just feel like I would be somewhat disappointed after getting a degree in FE (and being $50K in debt) then come to realize that I could have just gotten a 2-year degree and gained work experience to be in the same exact position.

I have contacted the HR manager at my local BLM office to try to get some more info but I have not heard back yet. Any information you "guys" can offer up is much appreciated!!

 

[madhatte]

You're in Eugene? I contracted out of that BLM office in '97-'98 as well as the Salem office. Worked on the CVS project. One of the best times of my life, great fun.

In my experience, the exact nature of degrees is sort of irrelevant. I have three very separate educations from very different places: Ecology, Photography, Nuclear Engineering. They don't really add up to a job in Forestry. What is important is time on the ground. A foot in the door buys you the permission to gain experience.

Where you will see the difference between a 2 and 4 year degree is the top of your professional ladder. We all start at the same bottom. A MS opens doors to higher pay, but is also likely to take you out of the woods and put you in an office, where the trees are an abstraction.

 

[Jacob J.]

It may be worth getting a temporary/seasonal job in timber management or silviculture to see if it's really what you want to do. Fire management is a totally different arm of "forestry", and involves a lot more of the Incident Command System and other EMS protocols than traditional forestry. A two year forestry engineering isn't going to buy you much initially. Like Madhatte says, it'll become prominent later in your career after you've spent a few years on the ground.

 

[parttime]

Occupational Outlook Handbook, 2010-11 Edition Oregon, search forrester here and you'll get a lot of info. good luck

 

[slowp]

Technically, I am merely a Forestry Technician. I have a two year degree and also went to a forest engineering coarse that used to be put on at Oregon State.

I started out as a tree planter. I am currently trying to get retired in or around April. My job will not be filled behind. I'm what the loggers call The Forester and I check their work and offer helpful tips--trying to keep both sides happy and the land in good shape.

I think it is the most interesting work in the agency--which is the one with the piss fir on the badge.

There are lots and lots of folks retiring. Our district has an outreach for what we used to call a "Junior Forester" job...A GS 5,7,9 small sales/firewood/salal and miscellaneous products person. I'll PM you the outreach.

The secret to getting a job? Apply at a place nobody else wants to go to. Places like Happy Camp, Silver Lake, Here, etc. Places that are isolated. They have a hard time finding people. It is called getting your foot in the door and not too many people are willing to do that. We've had people come and see our community and turn the job down. Right now, if you are mobile, you may just find somthing. Hiring is a problem because folks are not willing to move because they'll lose money on selling their houses.

I get the idea that there will be a shortage of foresters in all aspects of business. It sounds like most kids want to be ecologists and 'ologists now.

Also, be advised that politics run the agency forests. It can be very frustrating.

Hope this helps. Go look up USAJobs.gov and that's where you start. Be sure it has a gov at the end. A logger who applied for a job said there is a USAjobs.com where you pay to get the same info that is free.

 

[slowp]

Oh, and the forestry tech vs forester dillema. I'll put it this way. If you have a 4 year degree, you can be either one. If you have a 2 year degree, you cannot be a professional forester where I work.

As a technician, you will move up slower and most will top out at the GS-9 level. My specialty can go higher and there is a shortage of timber contract administration people right now. I chose to stay at my current level because I like being out of the office. Beyond that level, you will be desk bound.

The rules were changed so technicians have to be promoted to each grade, slowly working up. Foresters can go two grades.

Should another major house cleaning (purge) of timber and engineering folks occur, foresters are in a better position.

That's about all I can type this morning, and pardon my typing..the coffee has not kicked in.

 

[OregonSawyer]

Haha no worries. Thanks everybody for your input. Do any of you think that if I could get a job "shadowing" a cruiser over the summer that it would translate to relative experience for me? Since I have pretty good ties with the sawmill I used to work for I am thinking that there's a decent chance that I could talk them into working something out for me.

Just trying to figure out what may be the best way for me to "get my foot in the door" with some contacts that I already have.

For example: Would it be easier to get a job through BLM after doing something like cruising?

Again, thanks to all who have replied

And I have looked through the USAJobs site A LOT lately

 

[floyd]

Why don't you just get a job as a criuser? USFS still hires summer folks as far as I'm aware.

Some private companies hire summer folks as well.

 

[slowp]

Sometimes the FS contracts out the cruising. That seems to be happening more and more. We also are on a trend to have the loggers marking timber. Times have changed. A lot of the grunt work is now contracted out.

If you are serious about working for the FS, you need to see if it is too late to get hired on as a seasonal. There is also a program with an acronym, for college students, to be hired on with less conpetition.

Don't be picky about where you will go. You can't afford to be when you are starting out. That comes later. For some reason, that aspect seems to be unworkable for a lot of people.

 

[madhatte]

Don't be picky about where you will go. You can't afford to be when you are starting out.

WHOO BOY ain't that the truth.

I used a General Delivery address for a couple of years because I lived out of my truck and didn't actually live anywhere. The job had me traveling an average of 1000 miles a week just getting to and from job sites. I was a independent subcontractor at the time, so I had to bear all of the costs of doing business out of my own paycheck -- gas, insurance, maintenance, equipment, etc -- but it was such a blast I did it anyway.

 

[OregonSawyer]

So am I understanding right in that you are suggesting that working with the log buyer at the sawmill might not be too beneficial?

Also, the seasonal work you are referring to? Is this Wildland Firefighting? I have a friend that seems to think she could get me a job doing that (and it seems that is what a lot of Forestry students do)

 

[slowp]

So am I understanding right in that you are suggesting that working with the log buyer at the sawmill might not be too beneficial?

Also, the seasonal work you are referring to? Is this Wildland Firefighting? I have a friend that seems to think she could get me a job doing that (and it seems that is what a lot of Forestry students do)

You need to decide what you want to do. Nobody else can.

 

[Jacob J.]

So am I understanding right in that you are suggesting that working with the log buyer at the sawmill might not be too beneficial?

Also, the seasonal work you are referring to? Is this Wildland Firefighting? I have a friend that seems to think she could get me a job doing that (and it seems that is what a lot of Forestry students do)

Wildland firefighting isn't really going to translate into forestry experience, even though you'd be hired in the GS-0462 Forestry Technician series as a firefighter. Like Slowp said, you could check and see if there's a seasonal position in timber. Wildland firefighting is a good foot in the door but would likely lead to continued work in firefighting rather than forestry. If you pick up the education to go along with the firefighting experience then you could squeeze into a timber/silviculture position later.

 

[floyd]

Think outside the box. Fight fires get a WAE position then look for openings in timber mgmt & apply.


This is assuming you want to work for USFS.

If not then get summer work with private & hope someone dies & they offer you a FT position.

 

[Gologit]

Getting your foot in the door.

http://www.spi-ind.com/html/pdf_forests/2011ForestryTechnician.pdf

These guys are the number one timber outfit in California and they're expanding into Oregon and Washington. They employ many foresters.

 

[forestryworks]

http://www.spi-ind.com/html/pdf_forests/2011ForestryTechnician.pdf

These guys are the number one timber outfit in California and they're expanding into Oregon and Washington. They employ many foresters.

You beat me to it, Bob.

 

[Gologit]

You beat me to it, Bob.

First time that ever happened.:rotfl: I don't think that job pays much but if a guy gets his foot in the door there's an amazing amount of opportunity. SPI is a very progressive outfit and there seems to be very little turn-over in the forestry staff.

They're involved in every type of logging there is and I think that a green forester would be exposed to more opportunity to learn a wider spectrum of stuff than anywhere else.

One thing about that job...you'll really be in shape by the end of the season. Lot's of cow-face ground and no other way to check it but walk.

 

[OregonSawyer]

Wildland firefighting isn't really going to translate into forestry experience, even though you'd be hired in the GS-0462 Forestry Technician series as a firefighter. Like Slowp said, you could check and see if there's a seasonal position in timber. Wildland firefighting is a good foot in the door but would likely lead to continued work in firefighting rather than forestry. If you pick up the education to go along with the firefighting experience then you could squeeze into a timber/silviculture position later.

Thanks, that's kinda what I'm looking for. I see quite a few jobs online through USAJobs that say "Forestry Aid/Technician" and others that say "Forestry Aid/Technician (Wildland Firefighter)" so I'm just trying to figure out if there is a difference between the two.