Percentage of people strictly looking for cheap

[Tree&Stump]

Cheap advertising and readily available knowledge has an effect on the industries. I'm not sure what significance that has on our pricing though.

5 year olds can advertise tree service wor what ever they want online these days. A high schooler could take a piece of the market just by following arbos and their tree videos/educational websites online. It's not hard for greenies to be inspired and get wet in the same neighborhood as the tree vets.

Take everything back the other way, and make advertising and the internet geyser of knowledge something very expensive and difficult to handle kept out of sight. That's when the prices will come back up because there will be fewer cheap arbos advertising their phone numbers online saying they will do your tree work for next to nothing.

 

[Blakesmaster]

A lot of farmers went broke because they felt they needed every possible piece of equipment even tho they didn't have a real need to own it.

Tree workers have done the same, instead of renting equipment or doing it the hard way they went out and bought tools they really seldom need then they have to up their price to try to get all of their customers to pay for stuff not needed often. The resulting cost to the homeowner often means needed work doesn't get done, or some one will do it for less. Many homeowners would rather not have the "two guys and a pickup" but that's all they can afford.

Many tree people, who work for less than the over equipped ones, are good at working with trees and do quality work.

Whine all you want, it doesn't put money in your pocket. Accept it, you have priced yourself out of your market.

I think this attitude is part of the reason prices are low in our industry. I have no, that is 0, interest in dicing big wood up with a saw and throwing it by hand into a pickup ever again as I was forced to do a few years back. Nor will I even be able to do that 10-20 years from now as my body starts giving out.

 

[hannontree1]

I think we all got off track who cares how big you are or small if your leagal insured liecened workers comp charge What you think Is far but how do you compete with the guy thats not and elegaly dumping

 

[Pelorus]

Years ago I paid (and continue to pay for) a business line in order to be able to advertise in the Yellow Pages, in order to have a marketing advantage over new start-ups and hacks. Doesn't work so well anymore cause anybody can advertise they are an arborist or tree service biz on places like Kijiji, Craigslist, or a website, and less and less people bother using the Yellow Pages.

I think the residential market is becoming tougher and tougher, and I am going to be focusing more on commercial / municipal / insurance work. To that end I have increased my liability ins. coverage, and now have Worker's Comp. A repeat customer base is great, as are referrals, but I think there is less brand loyalty nowadays, especially with younger homeowners.

 

[mckeetree]

Years ago I paid (and continue to pay for) a business line in order to be able to advertise in the Yellow Pages, in order to have a marketing advantage over new start-ups and hacks. Doesn't work so well anymore cause anybody can advertise they are an arborist or tree service biz on places like Kijiji, Craigslist, or a website, and less and less people bother using the Yellow Pages.

I think the residential market is becoming tougher and tougher, and I am going to be focusing more on commercial / municipal / insurance work. To that end I have increased my liability ins. coverage, and now have Worker's Comp. A repeat customer base is great, as are referrals, but I think there is less brand loyalty nowadays, especially with younger homeowners.

Makes sense.

 

[Tree&Stump]

This is important to know about commercial. Bad residential tree care doesn't totally ruin an HO's reputation. Bad commercial tree care does ruin a business person's reputation and investments though.

Business people are protecting their public image with the orderliness of their landscapes in order to retain brand value to their target market. If the hacks do in their trees, they lose face to the public, and they lose money on their investments. They sure as h will not let anyone do that to them. Business people are more defensive about who they do business with for that reason. Home owners would let a jailer and a group of thugs with broken bit english get the work done if it only meant they had to pay a small price for the amateurs' tree work. Business people would almost rather see all of that none sense stay in jail as apposed to let them on their property, support them none what so ever, and prevent them from messing with their business investments.

This means pros and pros only are able to cross the barrier into commercial. The market is impossible to get into without adequate equipment, experienced, pro minded staff, etc. Then there's that long, focused merge into the market with the rest of the commercial companies. Idiots and hacks don't stand a chance at that. They either need to try to get on board a commercial outfit that already has a corner of the market locked, and then see if they can keep up with the commercial company, or they have to just keep poking at it with worthless prices on residential work.

At least hacks don't drag down the prices on the commercial work.

 

[beastmaster]

The percentage of people whose only criteria is price is more a question of marketing. If you market yourself to the people who are willing to pay more, then you will not get as many of the people who only want to hire lowballers. For instance, if you have a professional website and talk a lot about quality, people will know you are not the lowest price operation in town. You will get customers who care about quality.

On the flip side, if the name of your company is "Affordable tree Care" or something similar, and on your website it talks about how you have competitive prices you will get a lot more calls from those kinds of people.

It's the difference between this:
Finch Tree

and this:

INEXPENSIVE TREE SERVICES

I recently started doing a lady's trees in Pasadena who used Finch's for years. I have my little truck, a 12 ft trailer and all my equipment, no employees, and use someone elses ins. I'm sure I'm doing her trees considerably cheaper then finch did, and if they drove by while I was working they would be adding to this thread, but I assure you I do as good if not better work then they do, and I'm making what I feel is great money on that job. As soon as I get my contractors lic. and own insurance, me and my little trailer will be out doing highend jobs for less. I have little overhead, no employees, and know trees. That may be the business plan of the future.

 

[chief116]

Apparently Juan, Pedro, and Julio are very good salesmen if they convince Tom, #### and Harry Homeowner to use them with Spanglish, hand signals and mcdonald's napkin estimate sheets, instead of you fellows. When was the last time you looked at your own reputations?

 

[no tree to big]

Apparently Juan, Pedro, and Julio are very good salesmen if they convince Tom, #### and Harry Homeowner to use them with Spanglish, hand signals and mcdonald's napkin estimate sheets, instead of you fellows. When was the last time you looked at your own reputations?

Hearing these daily targets is depressing our 4 man removal crew aims for 4500-5k a day and our 3 man trim crews go about 3k a day...

 

[mckeetree]

Hearing these daily targets is depressing our 4 man removal crew aims for 4500-5k a day and our 3 man trim crews go about 3k a day...

Hey, you think you are depressed. What about me? I should be suicidal.

 

[Pelorus]

I have my little truck, a 12 ft trailer and all my equipment, no employees, and use someone elses ins. I have little overhead, no employees, and know trees. That may be the business plan of the future.

My business is not much bigger, except for a dump trailer, miniskid, and chipper.
Two other tree services get subbed out to help me when a job requires additional iron. They are guys that I have worked with for years. They enlist me to climb for them sometimes.
Strategic alliances with guys you can trust is a force multiplier. I've been burned a few times too, but being able to have a couple of good working business relationships with other guys in this industry is what works for me.

 

[mckeetree]

That will be changing in the future, you can bank on it.

I read an article the other day about how the illegal invasion, the 1986 amnesty and now the pending amnesty of 15,000,000 illegal aliens has and is reducing what you can get for any green industry job. In the South we have been feeling that since the mid nineties. The 1986 amnesty opened the flood gates for millions of illegals to come here in the following years and you know this one will too...I figure you guys "up north" will feel it pretty soon.

 

[mckeetree]

being able to have a couple of good working business relationships with other guys in this industry is what works for me.

Is that why several tree guys around here keep wanting to get involved with us at some level. The ones I'm talking about around here really don't have anything to offer me except if I hired them to climb and climbers I already have. There is one in particular if I see his truck at a restaurant I was thinking of stopping at I just cruise on by to somewhere else. I really don't know him too well but he always acts we are the biggest buddies in the world and slaps me on the back and goes on with a bunch of goofy ####.

 

[Pelorus]

Is that why several tree guys around here keep wanting to get involved with us at some level. The ones I'm talking about around here really don't have anything to offer me except if I hired them to climb and climbers I already have. There is one in particular if I see his truck at a restaurant I was thinking of stopping at I just cruise on by to somewhere else. I really don't know him too well but he always acts we are the biggest buddies in the world and slaps me on the back and goes on with a bunch of goofy ####.

Has gotta be a reciprocal thing that benefits both parties equally. Otherwise, one guy is contributing a rabbit to the stew, while the other guy donates an elephant. That ain't gonna fly very well or very long. Ask me how I know, cause my elephant herd gradually got decimated.
I have zero inclination to take on more debt or employees.

 

[hannontree1]

i have managed for big companies and been the small guy now im the middle guy one chip truck one log truck one crane and the middle is good no headaches like the big companies they know what i mean and being the small guy just sucks but i still say who cares how big or small if your legal its they guys with no insurance and no clue who screw us all in the long run

 

[mckeetree]

When I started 26 years ago I was a micro guy, and yes, that sucked. Small would have been too big a word to describe me. I was 26 years old with no money to amount to anything and not much credit. I hear guys say they don't want debt and they don't want employees but that's the only way I ever got going. How could I get anything worth a #### to work with without going in debt? I maintain a fair amount of debt today but it helps manage taxes somewhat. One thing though that was better back then...back in those days a homeowner could get bids from three tree services and there wouldn't be a nickels worth of difference in the three. Today they get three and you have something like $1,725.00 , $1,690.00 and some idiot comes in at $300.00 or some such. I remember when you just didn't see that. With all NAA (now TCIA) and ISA has done the industry was more professional in many ways 26 years ago than it is today.

 

[mckeetree]

When I started 26 years ago I was a micro guy, and yes, that sucked. Small would have been too big a word to describe me. I was 26 years old with no money to amount to anything and not much credit. I hear guys say they don't want debt and they don't want employees but that's the only way I ever got going. How could I get anything worth a #### to work with without going in debt? I maintain a fair amount of debt today but it helps manage taxes somewhat. One thing though that was better back then...back in those days a homeowner could get bids from three tree services and there wouldn't be a nickels worth of difference in the three. Today they get three and you have something like $1,725.00 , $1,690.00 and some idiot comes in at $300.00 or some such. I remember when you just didn't see that. With all NAA (now TCIA) and ISA has done the industry was more professional in many ways 26 years ago than it is today.

Something happened today right along those lines. Guy calls for a removal bid on a big slash pine. The tree is healthy he is just tired of the mess and the roots on top of the ground. My quote was the fourth and he says the last he is getting and mine two of the other three were not that far apart. Most people don't reveal their other quotes but he seemed eager to so I looked at what he had. One was just a verbal he claimed he got for $1,500.00. Mine and another he got in writing were $1,550.00 and what appeared to be $1,270.00 (the quote was convoluted and the writing was terrible). Then, there was this cat calling himself Ruiz Trees coming along at $500.00. It was actually written out but the only thing I could read was the $500.00.

 

[poorboypaul]

Almost became a fatality Sunday evening. My niece's husband is finally getting electric to his house. Penelec told him 3 trees were to be removed at the existing service at my father's house before they would begin. After hearing how he could drop a tree any direction he wanted it to go, blah, blah, he hooked a tow strap around the first tree. Using his car trailer with attached winch, we pulled the first tree over. Now mind you, I was helping him because he has helped me numerous times with auto related issues. I was NOT going to do any cutting or such, because this is beyond my skill level. It's his butt if he drops a tree over the electric line. Cuts his notch in the next tree BEFORE climbing up to attach the tow strap. 2nd tree strapped off, put some tension on it. I'm standing 90 degrees from where the tree is supposed to go, behind my father's house, when he starts to cut it down. The IDIOT proceeded to cut through the hinge! The tree drops straight down on his saw and binds it up. I then look up to see the tree falling straight at me! I ran like heck as the tree hit the ground behind me along with a nice blue arc from the electric line he tore off my dad's house. Amazingly, the weatherhead cut through the coating and hit the neutral wire. My father still had electric. The MORON calls me the next day and asked if I would cut the tree off the line for him! Told him he could go pound salt up you know where because I wasn't cutting a tree off a hot electric line. Didn't want to spend the money to have someone who knows what they're doing cut the trees down. Still 1 large oak left to go, and if he hits the main line behind the transformer, was told it will cost him $10,000.00 to fix it. More power to him. I won't be around for that fiasco.

 

[hannontree1]

i run into the same stuff here i would like to know if 500 dollar bid was insured i would say no i gave a bid the other day for a big hickory easy removal in front over house home owner wants all wood just chip brush grind stump nasty root mess maybe a total of 3 hours of work to do total job using crane and big stump grinder i told her 800 she told me she had a bid for 300 including stump i told her in a nice way good luck with that and she might want to ask to see there insurnce

 

[hannontree1]

trying to be cheap is ok on somethings i guss but its not allways worth it years ago we where doing storm clean up when the guy next door to where we were working came over to ask how much to take a broken lead off a slash pine i told him 100 dollars being nice about 20 ft up no big deal he told me i was crazy he would have his son do it we saw them come out with there ladder and saw we went in back yard of are job site next thing i hear is one of my guys screaming i ran up front leads down next door so is ladder and the son we did what we could to help it was not pretty cheap is not allways better