Perfect Climbing Saw ?

[rahtreelimbs]

There seems to have been a lot of interest in climbing saws recently. This got me to thinking about designing the perfect climbing saw. ( I thought this would be fun! ) If you could design the perfect climbing saw what would it be? What would the rpm's be? What would the weight be? What kind of ergonomics would it have? Lets hear what you would want.

 

[alamo-kid]

climbing saw

rich,



good luck on the topic . I want to see a good comparison from someone who has used a 020 vs. shindiawa 357.

jeff

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Re: climbing saw

Originally posted by alamo-kid
rich,



good luck on the topic . I want to see a good comparison from someone who has used a 020 vs. shindiawa 357.

jeff

Hey, This just for fun. The Shin 357 may not be the best saw out there, but, I couldn't pass it up for the price and it makes for a good backup saw.

 

[John in MA]

Just in this same vein, what were the popular climbing saws before all the modern ones? I know the 015 and/or 020 go way back, but I can't remember much else. Did Poulan XXVs and Homelite Super2s get lots of use back then?

 

[treeclimber165]

15-20 years ago, the Poulan Super25DA was the climber's weapon of choice. When Stihl came out with the 020T they were priced at $599 and had carburation problems. Then Husky tried a climbing saw but their effort was plagued by gremlins in the assembly line for years and was almost as expensive as the Stihl. When Echo came out with the CS3000 and CS3400, I was hesitant to buy one. I liked Echo lawn stuff but never cared for their saws much. When I finally bought one I was amazed how light it was compared to the Super25DA. Less power but very easy to use. The Super25DA was selling for about $300 when I switched. I know a couple old-timers (older than me) that still use the Poulans for climbing.

 

[treeclimber165]

Forgot the obligatory picture. Notice the complete lack of any PPE. I was young and dumb, but God kept me alive long enough to learn better.
:angel:

 

[Rotax Robert]

015 L is perfect....free tree toppin inc.

 

[robedic]

My criteria would involve power to weight ratio. I thought the Husky 335 was the ultimate here, and then I learned that their 335 Cali special has the same weight with more displacement, and thus, more hp. However, the Cali has a lower hp/displacement ratio. This got me thinking that if Husky really wanted to, they could make a climbing saw with light weight, same displacement as the Cali and proportionally more hp. What would be the drawbacks; gas consumption or just too much power for safety sake in a one-handed saw?

 

[treeslayer]

Husky cal. model has more displacement, but the same HP.
it all related to emissions.
be careful, numbers can be decieving.

 

[robedic]

Thanks for the correction, but it still seems to me that Husky would be able to produce a more powerful saw (perhaps only for sale outside CA) by starting with the Cali and tuning is for high performance.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Top handled saws are very dangerous to use. The potential for kickback is much greater than with a rear handle. Some folks think the top handle is designed for one handed use, this is not true, one should always cut with both hands firmly on the handles. This is why only small saws have top handles. Imagine running an 066 with a top handle. You would have no control and it would fly out of your hands in the event of a kickback.

Saw manufacturers need to keep safty as the number one consideration, not because they care, just because of liability. There has to be some size limit at which point they just don't want to exceed in a top handled model.

Personally, I don't understand the top handle design. The company for whom I do arborist work has 020's, 335's, 3400's, and 3450's. I've used them all extensively and find the rear handled echo 3450 by far the most ergonmically comfortable and effective for tree climbing. I would no sooner buy a top handled saw than buy a poulan wild thing, at full retail, to use as my daily saw.

Imagine if I sat here and said my wild thing was much better than your sthil 44 or 66's, and better than your husky 372 or 395s, you would laugh at me. Well, that's how i feel about you fools running your top handled saws, I laugh at you.

 

[treeslayer]

This fool swears by his 020 (and 335) for tree work, I've limbed, topped, blocked down, cut down and logged out 60 foot pines with my 020. made good time, and good money. it all about personal preference.
but don't worry, after your biased, insulting reply, you're not the only one laughing.......

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
Top handled saws are very dangerous to use. The potential for kickback is much greater than with a rear handle. Some folks think the top handle is designed for one handed use, this is not true, one should always cut with both hands firmly on the handles. This is why only small saws have top handles. Imagine running an 066 with a top handle. You would have no control and it would fly out of your hands in the event of a kickback.

Saw manufacturers need to keep safty as the number one consideration, not because they care, just because of liability. There has to be some size limit at which point they just don't want to exceed in a top handled model.

Personally, I don't understand the top handle design. The company for whom I do arborist work has 020's, 335's, 3400's, and 3450's. I've used them all extensively and find the rear handled echo 3450 by far the most ergonmically comfortable and effective for tree climbing. I would no sooner buy a top handled saw than buy a poulan wild thing, at full retail, to use as my daily saw.

Imagine if I sat here and said my wild thing was much better than your sthil 44 or 66's, and better than your husky 372 or 395s, you would laugh at me. Well, that's how i feel about you fools running your top handled saws, I laugh at you.

Mike is entitled to his opinion as much as the next guy on this site. It does come down to personal preferance. I know of only a few climbers that don't use top handle saws. I respect Mike's opinions, he has added alot to this site.

 

[treeclimber165]

For my personal preference, the perfect climbing saw would have the power of a modified Husky 335XPT, the lightweight and reliability of an Echo and the brand name recognition of a Stihl.

Not counting the brand name thing, the new (not yet released in USA) Echo 350T just may be the answer. Can't wait to find out more about it.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by treeslayer
This fool swears by his 020 (and 335) for tree work, I've limbed, topped, blocked down, cut down and logged out 60 foot pines with my 020. made good time, and good money. it all about personal preference.
but don't worry, after your biased, insulting reply, you're not the only one laughing.......

Slayer, your new here so I'll go easy on you.
First, when you see a smiley face that means the preceeding comment was made in jest.
Second, cutting down a 60 foot pine doesn't say a dag-bum thing about the saw, gee-wilickers, I could do that with just about any gas saw made. If you want to argue the pros and cons of handle positioning, then talk about those differences, not how much money you once made cutting with the saw you like.
Finally, I am biased on this topic, been climbing for almost 20 years, I've used all these saws, I come to my conclusion from actual experience. If I insulted you, sorry. If you are laughing, then I succeeded.

Tell me this, what rear handled saw have you run in a tree for at least two weeks of work?

 

[robedic]

How much displacement can Husky get out of the little 335 block? Is 45 CCs the maximum? I also have a related question: does the Cali stand to gain more from mods than the regular 335?

 

[geofore]

top handle

I'm not going to give up my Cali 335XPT just because Mike doesn't like top handles. As to the kickback, they even make chains to reduce that but all saws kick back I like the top handle but the rear handle does have more reach one handed Any saw over 4hps is easier to control with the rear handle. For the liability end of this the Cali has the motion sensitive break. Anti-vibe, chain breaks, chain catchers all little things added over the years to make things a bit safer. If it is a choice between the top handle or rear handle I'm going with the top handle and at 4 hps and up I think the rear handle is better and safer in the trees or on the ground. I prefer the rear handled saws on the ground no matter the hps, for the control.The right tool for the right job, I'm not ready to give up the top handle just yet in the tree tops though I change over to the rear handle if the wood calls for a larger saw.

 

[treeslayer]

Mike,
1) so thats what the smiley meant.
2) I was refering to the power of my 020, that I could take out the whole tree if needed.
I agree that if it had any more power, I would be leery of a top handle.

I appreciate your insight, and also that you left me standing.

I'm sorry I got nasty, I should'nt have taken your comments so seriously.

I use rear handled saws in a tree when blocking, I guess I'll
pull up a little one and try limbing.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

When I say I like a rear handled saw the first thing people say is something like, "What do you do take a 023 up with you?" Well no, I'm refering to the one or two small rear handled saws on the market at any given time. The Homelite XL2 comes to mind, the Husky 35, the poulan super 25, and the Echo 3450, 345,346. Even removing the top handle from a 335 or similar saw and custom fitting it with a rear handle.

I'm not talking about power or weight, just handle configuration. Take Slayers comments, for example, when I said I like rear handled saws, he said he likes his 020 'cus it has lots of power.

Geofore loves his 335, and that's great, has he used a rear handled saw in a tree for any amount of time to make an intellegent dicsision between the two? If the Husky 335 changed over to a rear handle, would he switch brands?

So far we agree the rear handled saw is safer and has better reach one handed, and trust me, it has better reach when you use it properly with two hands also, considerably better reach.

Another advantage is how it pulls through the tree/ hangs on your belt. Long and somewhat pointed in shape it pulls up the tree flawlessly and follows you through the tree without snagging the way an 020 does.

Did you know working with your wrists bent can lead to carpal tunnel? Try holding your 020 in several different cutting positions. Notice the position of your right wrist. How do you like having a carburetor right where I can comfortably hold my saw, with my wrist in a normal straight working position?

Brand recognition and cost are important, but we are talking the best here, not the most economical or popular. I don't see mechanics buying K-mart scocket sets to save money over Snap-on.

 

[geofore]

Top handle

Of the five saws I bought in the past year, four are rear handle and my trimming saw is TOP handle. Even with the drawback of the saw hanging up now and then in the climb, I like it better in the tree. I have used both for thirty+ years and am not ready to make the first choice rear handle. The choice of the Husky was because it had the top handle to replace the old top handle of another brand that finally had enough. I own more rear handle saws than top handles but my first pick is the top handle.
I use a 14" bar so reach is not the issue, my comfort zone is, I feel comfortable with it. When the 14" no longer handles the wood the next saw up is rear handle My take is you had a bad childhood experience with a top handle and now you avoid them.
My first saw with real antivibe mounts was the Poulan 4000 in 1986, a rear handle saw. It still runs and was rebuit for the third time this year. Some day I'll buy a real saw a' Mike.