Picking a woodstove

[husky455rancher]

It seems like if someone has a cat stove they say they wouldn’t ever go back to a tube stove. Is it because they have a more even output?
Im thinking I would be happy with any good brand of wood stove just want to make the right decision. Seems like a non cat will burn long enough for an overnight burn and enough coals so you don’t have to restart it.
As for as blaze king owners why does this brand stand out so much for you? If it’s 10 degrees out will there be advantages in efficiency over day a good quality non cat?
Thanks for the replies, seems like most everyone likes the stove they have.

They heat differently. My Shenandoah would bring the house up to temp really quick. But they do chew through the wood to do it. If the firebox is big enough you could definitely have coals in the morning. Regardless of the stove type. The cat stove takes longer to get to temp but the heat is super even. If you care of such things it produces really no pollution once the cat is fired up. This didn’t sway me to buy the stove in anyway lol but it might for some people. I love how low the bottom of the firebox is so there’s like 9 inches or something stupid to the bottom of the door. So I empty it like once a month or so.

It is superior to my insert in every possible way. Only reason I use it at all is because I don’t want to keep starting and stopping the king during the shoulder season. Usually in November, December the insert goes down and the blaze king fires up till spring.

When I was looking for a new stove I wanted the best and after my personal research I picked the blaze king king model. I picked the classic model as it dosent have to be pretty because it’s in my cellar.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

My buddies insert has the tube vs my cat stove. His burn times are much longer but the firebox is bigger. He can knock his all the way back too, we can’t. Ours will back puff if the air is too restricted.

 

[Mustang71]

My englander furnace still has plenty of coals in the morning. I reload on it and it takes a bit to get it going again. Burn times are way less when the stove is cold in the morning and the house is cold. I might get a few hours of burn time on the first load. After that it holds large coals all day and I can throw a few pieces in and heat all day maintaining the temp in the house. I dont need to run it hard to maintain the temp but to bring the house up 8 degrees from cold start it eats wood lol. I burn mainly ash and that seems to coal easily which effects burn time also.

 

[Marine5068]

I am a Blaze King owner and can say I would not go back to a regular secondary burn equipped stove (tube or perforated baffle) by choice. The long burn times, operation simplicity, smooth linear heat output and wood usage reduction of a Cat equipped stove are really true benefits. In a Cat stove consider the BK's and Woodstock's. Both are industry leading and widely respected. My last Catalyst lasted 4 years. I kept it for a back up as it was in fine physical condition but getting slower to react. If you have questions regarding my experience with Cat equipped stoves, feel free to PM me. Anytime. Or post here.

If you decide to pursue a Non cat model then by all means the PE stoves are well respected, as mentioned. You can likely find a half dozen non cat stove manufacturer's that generally offer similar performance. The one non cat tube stove I really have been personally impressed with is the Drolet HT2000 model. Considered a reasonable priced stove it outperforms its cost. It is now called a HT3000 in the states to meet the new EPA criteria. There are a few users posting HT3000 results on a couple other wood burning sites. Worth researching. If I was going back to a non cat it would be that stove. Priced right. Quality construction. Great burn times with super heat output. I helped a buddy install the 2000 a handful of years ago. Its been very impressive since.

17Ft straight up and out sounds great.

There is a HT2000 F/S on C.L. just north of Albert Lea. It is brand new, never fired. However the owner stored it in a shed and it needs cleaned up. Food for tho

I am a Blaze King owner and can say I would not go back to a regular secondary burn equipped stove (tube or perforated baffle) by choice. The long burn times, operation simplicity, smooth linear heat output and wood usage reduction of a Cat equipped stove are really true benefits. In a Cat stove consider the BK's and Woodstock's. Both are industry leading and widely respected. My last Catalyst lasted 4 years. I kept it for a back up as it was in fine physical condition but getting slower to react. If you have questions regarding my experience with Cat equipped stoves, feel free to PM me. Anytime. Or post here.

If you decide to pursue a Non cat model then by all means the PE stoves are well respected, as mentioned. You can likely find a half dozen non cat stove manufacturer's that generally offer similar performance. The one non cat tube stove I really have been personally impressed with is the Drolet HT2000 model. Considered a reasonable priced stove it outperforms its cost. It is now called a HT3000 in the states to meet the new EPA criteria. There are a few users posting HT3000 results on a couple other wood burning sites. Worth researching. If I was going back to a non cat it would be that stove. Priced right. Quality construction. Great burn times with super heat output. I helped a buddy install the 2000 a handful of years ago. Its been very impressive since.

17Ft straight up and out sounds great.

There is a HT2000 F/S on C.L. just north of Albert Lea. It is brand new, never fired. However the owner stored it in a shed and it needs cleaned up. Food for thought.

I own a Drolet HT2000 and bought it a year after moving in to replace a 25 year old "smoke dragon" of a stove that came with my house.
Its a great stove for the money. I have long burn times and can have coals left after 8-10 hour burns.
It beats having to get up every 4 hours to load the old stove.
The new HT3000 is the newest model and the two stoves are both sold by Drolet now but are separate models.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Top load.
Top load means you can fill the firebox, to the top.
When it is out, open top, with shovel work ashes through bottom grate into ash pan.
Very easy.
The only shoveling ash is sometimes there is a small amount builds up being ash door that needs cleared to close ash pan that hinges to left side.
We only open the front doors to do a year end cleaning.
VC Defiant flex burn.

 

[sled_22]

I have a Vermont Castings Encore. Another top load design. It's basically supplemental heat in our house but it hasn't been cool since October other than one morning to sweep the chimney.
I can load the stove around 9 pm and when I refuel at 5am, there's plenty of coals lefts to refire kindling and get the stove going again. usually at 5 am the stove top is still around 300-400 degrees F. I bet I haven't used more than 1 sunday's paper to restart fires this winter.
The nice thing about this stove, imo, is it's easy to control. My wife can handle it when I'm away and leave me with with zero safety concerns.

 

[Saiso]

You want 10 hours I recommend a firebox that is 3.0 cube.

Fire box size is most important for burn times. If its an EPA stove they all will work well

I have a PE summit and love it. Get 10 hours easy with hardwood. 12 hours sometimes and if its real good wood and i damper it down i can stretch it to 14 coal to coal. But you need a lot of ash left in their to help keep coals


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]

I second this.
We have a big house and primarily heat with wood + a mini split backup. I haven’t even started making big fires because the basement would get way too crispy.
We’re very happy with our Summit.

 

[sam s]

To me I even thought I never had a stove in a house before. The room isn’t to big and will heat up fast I’m guessing. From what I read it will be hard to move heat to different rooms. A 2 cubic stove would probably work most of the time for what I want but most here say 3 cubic stove. Let’s say I get a 3 cubic stove and load it like a 2 cubic stove most of the time will I still get decent burn times? From what I get out of some post here a blaze king I could just load fill it full but have it burn slower if the room got too hot I could turn it down more than a non cat stove.
I guess where I’m at now it’s pacific energy or a blaze king. The closest shop has both and the prices are very similar for each size. In some ways I’m not crazy looking to shell out 300 bucks on a cat every 4 years and things never seem to get cheaper. If it would make my life easier for loading less and better control of the heat than maybe it’s worth it. I’m just like simple and less upkeep. Seems like if I flip a coin I would be happy either way. Thanks for the replies.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

Sounds like you’re confusing load capacity with heat output. The amount of air and type of wood reflect heat, firebox size is burn time, The type of wood plays in here too. After doing it once, I wouldn’t buy my Vermont castings encore 2.3 cu ft unit again. I would go at least 3 cu ft and nothing downdraft/top load style. My buddies insert is much larger and less picky. His will take a 24” log easily where as mine will only take 2 21.5” splits if it’s empty and they must be shorter as you load it. I would burn a lot more wood if I went bigger originally and that’s not a bad thing. It just means I would use it more because it would be simpler. I was talked into the smaller one from a price standpoint and that was a mistake. Moving heat is hard and even with the bigger one I would still be using the oil filled radiators in our upstairs bedrooms due to the house design. Right now unless it drops into the mid 20s or less I’ll let my heat pump run, it’s easier. The woodstove become necessary once the heat pump can’t keep up. If I could load it every 10-12 hours and not have to keep messing with it, my heat pump wouldn’t run at all.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Vermont Casting Defiant Flex Burn capacity is 3.2 cu. ft. It's a bunch.
There are two styles of doors.
Not shown in spec sheet, but ours is an 8" flue.
That's important to note when choosing a wood stove, as you may have a 6" flue installed already.

 

[luckycutter]

I have a woodstock. It has secondary combustion and a cat. Very efficient and long burn times. The reason I chose it over some of the other great stoves was the soapstone. It takes longer to heat the room initially, but heats evenly and the stove puts out heat long after the fire is out. The cat is really easy to take out to clean or replace and since it has an ash pan I can dump the ashes without waiting for the stove to cool off. These stoves are heavy so getting it into your room might be an issue.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

To me I even thought I never had a stove in a house before. The room isn’t to big and will heat up fast I’m guessing. From what I read it will be hard to move heat to different rooms. A 2 cubic stove would probably work most of the time for what I want but most here say 3 cubic stove. Let’s say I get a 3 cubic stove and load it like a 2 cubic stove most of the time will I still get decent burn times? From what I get out of some post here a blaze king I could just load fill it full but have it burn slower if the room got too hot I could turn it down more than a non cat stove.
I guess where I’m at now it’s pacific energy or a blaze king. The closest shop has both and the prices are very similar for each size. In some ways I’m not crazy looking to shell out 300 bucks on a cat every 4 years and things never seem to get cheaper. If it would make my life easier for loading less and better control of the heat than maybe it’s worth it. I’m just like simple and less upkeep. Seems like if I flip a coin I would be happy either way. Thanks for the replies.

BK cat should last longer than 4 years unless you are burning lots of wood or don't treat it well.

Mine is going on 11 years, though I noticed this year it's not burning as well as it used to.
Roughly 25-30 cords.
A replacement catalyst is about $200.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Checking the cat element and cleaning it is regular maintenance.
Once a month or so in shoulder season when started and cooled more often.
Don't get a catalytic stove if you burn green wood.
Seasoning a couple months isn't going to work out well. In that case you would be very disappointed.
Season one to two years for some hardwoods.
Goes back to the bucket of water. Place a split of red oak end down in a bucket of water, and a piece of white oak next to it. I'm told, and I really have to try this myself, that the white oaks top end will be dry (closed cell structure) and the red oak will wick up water and the top end will be wet (open cell structure). This difference would obviously have an effect on seasoning as well.
When looking at stoves pull the cat element out and have a look at it.

 

[bkvp]

All great input and mostly accurate. Catalytic wood stoves earned a terrible (and deserved) reputation in the 1980's into the early 1990's. In 1984 Oregon became the first state to regulate wood heaters. The Feds began in 1988. So if you were one of the 1,200 or more stove manufacturers in the world selling wood stoves, you knew Oregon was a big part of the sales market. 99% of the wood stove manufacturers shoved cats into their stoves so they could sell them in Oregon. It was a magic pill! Unfortunately it was not understood what the effects of wood combustion would have on the combustors. Consumers were told they overfired their stoves. Dealers were told they did not educate the consumers correctly and the truth is....manufacturers rushed product to market without understanding the consequences. This is the risk of poorly timed regulatory impact.

Most manufacturers stopped making combustor equipped stoves and instead designed stoves that burned cleanly by thermal destruction. And of course they began bad-mouthing catalytic designed stoves. Much like you won't find the Ford sales guy boasting about Chev. trucks! We and a few other continued with chemical conversion. We began to figure out the ills of solid fuel combustion and the toll it takes on combustors. One coal stove manufacturer tried to add a combustor and called us...we said it won't work because the sulfur will poison the combustor. Well, they ditched that effort thankfully.

The truth is you must figure out a way to limit the upper temperature of the combustor. Most if not all the original combustor equipped stoves had combustor peak temperatures of around 1,800-2,000F. The fact is that when the combustor hits 1600F or higher repeatedly, the wash coat, which carries the precious metals flattens out and looses surface area. Eventually this means the combustor is no longer able to do the intended job. Just as is the case when secondary air tubes or baffles warp or distort or even crack. You see you might not notice such failure (which is costly to replace) but if your stove has a combustor you can see the failure in both terms of performance and if a ceramic substrate is used ceramic, a pile of debris in your wood stove.

So how does a combustor hit such excessive temperatures, one possibility is poor design. But in 99% of the cases that is not the cause. It's stack effect, the difference between outside and inside temps creates this effect. So if it's 70 in your home and 50 outside, the differential of 20 degrees wont create much stack effect. But if it's 70 inside and 0 or even lower outside, the stack effect increases dramatically. If the stove does not embody in the design a way to regulate the amount of air pulled into the stove by the chimney (stack effect), you can easily over fire a stove. In a combustor equipped stove, that can lead to flattening of the wash coat. In a secondary combustion stove, it can lead to excessive temps for the essential elements needed for continued clean burning. In the end, regardless of technology, we must all be responsible stove owners and conduct annual inspections....and when needed parts replacement. We have a thermostat that prevents such excessive combustor temperatures.

Do combustors wear out? Yes! Just like the tires on your truck, they wear out slowly over time if the stove is properly designed. And candidly all surface materials subjected to excessive temperatures will fail at some point, not just combustors. Acknowledging the need to replace the combustor, you have to figure that into your purchasing decision. Just be wise enough to know that just because a steel parts hasn't fallen into the coals doesn't mean it is a new as the day you lit the first match. Dealers will often remark that when they are given the opportunity or asked to inspect a wood heater, they can and do find lots of things others might think are not an issue.

And no one should burn green wood. In ANY stove design, burning green wood is why regulators have placed bullseye's on wood heating! Moisture in the fuel load is the single greatest contributor to excess particulates (smoke). You know you are a responsible wood burner when you drive down the street or country road and see smoke pouring out of a stack and care...... that is what gives us all a black eye. Also, creosote cannot form into that crusty crap unless there is some form of combustion moisture, so don't burn green wood. Instead, get 2-3 years ahead on your wood needs and split and stack under cover.

Regardless of technology used, all wood stoves require regular inspections and maintenance. Also, remember that on January 1, 2021, the outgoing administration signed into law at 26% Federal Tax credit for wood and pellet stoves that have efficiencies greater than 75 HHV. Keep in mind this list of eligible wood heaters may increase as more units come to market. The 26% applies to the chimney, labor to install, hearth pad etc. So you just don't save 26% on the stoves, it extends across all of the above and that folks is one heck of a lot of money. There is no limit to the credit as well, as there was in previous credits.

This pdf is as of today. You will have to print it out and paste side by side to see the full details.

Thank you all, stay well and warm!

BKVP

 

[cumminstinkerer]

All great input and mostly accurate. Catalytic wood stoves earned a terrible (and deserved) reputation in the 1980's into the early 1990's. In 1984 Oregon became the first state to regulate wood heaters. The Feds began in 1988. So if you were one of the 1,200 or more stove manufacturers in the world selling wood stoves, you knew Oregon was a big part of the sales market. 99% of the wood stove manufacturers shoved cats into their stoves so they could sell them in Oregon. It was a magic pill! Unfortunately it was not understood what the effects of wood combustion would have on the combustors. Consumers were told they overfired their stoves. Dealers were told they did not educate the consumers correctly and the truth is....manufacturers rushed product to market without understanding the consequences. This is the risk of poorly timed regulatory impact.

Most manufacturers stopped making combustor equipped stoves and instead designed stoves that burned cleanly by thermal destruction. And of course they began bad-mouthing catalytic designed stoves. Much like you won't find the Ford sales guy boasting about Chev. trucks! We and a few other continued with chemical conversion. We began to figure out the ills of solid fuel combustion and the toll it takes on combustors. One coal stove manufacturer tried to add a combustor and called us...we said it won't work because the sulfur will poison the combustor. Well, they ditched that effort thankfully.

The truth is you must figure out a way to limit the upper temperature of the combustor. Most if not all the original combustor equipped stoves had combustor peak temperatures of around 1,800-2,000F. The fact is that when the combustor hits 1600F or higher repeatedly, the wash coat, which carries the precious metals flattens out and looses surface area. Eventually this means the combustor is no longer able to do the intended job. Just as is the case when secondary air tubes or baffles warp or distort or even crack. You see you might not notice such failure (which is costly to replace) but if your stove has a combustor you can see the failure in both terms of performance and if a ceramic substrate is used ceramic, a pile of debris in your wood stove.

So how does a combustor hit such excessive temperatures, one possibility is poor design. But in 99% of the cases that is not the cause. It's stack effect, the difference between outside and inside temps creates this effect. So if it's 70 in your home and 50 outside, the differential of 20 degrees wont create much stack effect. But if it's 70 inside and 0 or even lower outside, the stack effect increases dramatically. If the stove does not embody in the design a way to regulate the amount of air pulled into the stove by the chimney (stack effect), you can easily over fire a stove. In a combustor equipped stove, that can lead to flattening of the wash coat. In a secondary combustion stove, it can lead to excessive temps for the essential elements needed for continued clean burning. In the end, regardless of technology, we must all be responsible stove owners and conduct annual inspections....and when needed parts replacement. We have a thermostat that prevents such excessive combustor temperatures.

Do combustors wear out? Yes! Just like the tires on your truck, they wear out slowly over time if the stove is properly designed. And candidly all surface materials subjected to excessive temperatures will fail at some point, not just combustors. Acknowledging the need to replace the combustor, you have to figure that into your purchasing decision. Just be wise enough to know that just because a steel parts hasn't fallen into the coals doesn't mean it is a new as the day you lit the first match. Dealers will often remark that when they are given the opportunity or asked to inspect a wood heater, they can and do find lots of things others might think are not an issue.

And no one should burn green wood. In ANY stove design, burning green wood is why regulators have placed bullseye's on wood heating! Moisture in the fuel load is the single greatest contributor to excess particulates (smoke). You know you are a responsible wood burner when you drive down the street or country road and see smoke pouring out of a stack and care...... that is what gives us all a black eye. Also, creosote cannot form into that crusty crap unless there is some form of combustion moisture, so don't burn green wood. Instead, get 2-3 years ahead on your wood needs and split and stack under cover.

Regardless of technology used, all wood stoves require regular inspections and maintenance. Also, remember that on January 1, 2021, the outgoing administration signed into law at 26% Federal Tax credit for wood and pellet stoves that have efficiencies greater than 75 HHV. Keep in mind this list of eligible wood heaters may increase as more units come to market. The 26% applies to the chimney, labor to install, hearth pad etc. So you just don't save 26% on the stoves, it extends across all of the above and that folks is one heck of a lot of money. There is no limit to the credit as well, as there was in previous credits.

This pdf is as of today. You will have to print it out and paste side by side to see the full details.

Thank you all, stay well and warm!

BKVP

good insight @bkvp always like to see manufacturers get in and add their .02, and yours has as long as i've been a member been insightful and not biased.

 

[bkvp]

good insight @bkvp always like to see manufacturers get in and add their .02, and yours has as long as i've been a member been insightful and not biased.

Thank you. The truth and facts always are the best course.

 

[MechanicMatt]

Thank you. The truth and facts always are the best course.

It was quite informative. I recently shifted from “the old smoke dragon” to a secondary burn stove. I can’t believe how much cleaner my chimney stays. How much less “visible smoke” there is. How it sips wood.
My favorite part of your explanation was the part about NOT burning green wood and getting ahead. Even with the old stove, I was always a year ahead. You can always know who doesn’t season their wood. Their chimneys bellow that nasty thick smoke

 

[Saiso]

Thought I’d post a picture of our PE Summit we bought in October. Like I said earlier, we love it. Serves our purpose as main heat for our basement and main floor.

 

[Bizzaro]

I used to have a Woodstock soapstone stove with a catalytic combuster in it. In all the years I owned it, the chimney brush would just fall through the chimney. Maybe a "little" resistance at the roofline.(temperature condensation of the smoke). I was always amazed at how clean my chimney stayed. All the residuals from burning would just fall on there own, as a dry crust to the bottom of the chimney. No creosote build up at all. The problems were the coal buildup.(I had to clean it a lot, and felt like I was throwing out a lot of heat in those coals). And the burn times where to short. Gone for 10 hours in the cold Winter days,(10° or less) and I would return to a cold house and being soapstone, it would take till most of the evening to get the house temperature back up. When it was below zero, this was a real challenge. I don't remember the box size, but I do remember the supposed stats. For the stove. 2100 sq.ft. heating area. And 12 hour burn. Not in the real world. I was heating 1400 sq.ft. I assumed at the time, 2004 maybe, the technology wasn't there to make a larger stove with a converter in it. I am not sure how far the tech has come, but I assume it has advanced and you can get a larger box with a combuster. I have since replaced that stove with an All Nighter(similar to Fisher Moma Bear, Poppa Bear, etc. Probably made by the same co?) Huge firebox. Conventional burner. Keeps a fire forever! Prolly 16 hours. Just cleaned my chimney the other day. It was a chore. It was all I could do to get the brush through on the first pass. Just my 2 cents. I would go back to a catalitic stove in a heartbeat if I was sure it would keep a fire for 16 hours, and get a better burn on the coals. They ain't cheap! Phew...... That was a lot for dated opinion!

 

[iceclimber]

BK cat should last longer than 4 years unless you are burning lots of wood or don't treat it well.

Mine is going on 11 years, though I noticed this year it's not burning as well as it used to.
Roughly 25-30 cords.
A replacement catalyst is about $200.

22 years, just put the 3rd. cat in VC stove. Paid less than 200.00 from Stove Parts Unlimited . They are in MT.