Pine-Magnolia marriage

[YankeeinSC]

Help!

I have a job that involves a yard that hadn't been maintained in 30+ years. Tight into one fenced corner there is a 40 foot magnolia that is supporting a dead rotten pine that is fractured at the base and leaning at about 10 degrees into the top of the magnolia. The bases of the trees are only about 8 feet apart.

The new HO wants to keep the Magnolia and didn't even know the pine was there (brush and ivy) until I pointed out what a danger it was! His budget doesn't include a crane and I don't think it is possible to cut the pine in sections without a sever kickback or worse stripping all the limbs from one side of the magnolia as it falls. I fear climbing the magnolia is even more dangerous. There is nothing near by to tie into either.

I might be able to remove some fence and winch it into a neighbor's yard but only as a last resort. Once again it may have been dead so long that it wont tolerate the load and may fail. Advice?

 

[treeseer]

I fear climbing the magnolia is even more dangerous.

Why?

Sounds like you can put pulleys into the mag to tie off the pine and rope it down.

 

[woodchux]

Did one just like that today. Striped all the limbs, then took the top out with a polesaw from the bucket, chunked down the trunk in firewood size pieces...

 

[YankeeinSC]

...pulleys into the mag to tie off the pine and rope it down.

There's an idea. I knew when I looked at it, that without a crane, climbing and rigging from the Mag would be the only option. Magnolia limbs scare me. They seem to fracture more easily than most species. They also grow so tightly together... (maybe it's just an illusion of the big leaves) anyhow there's just not much in the way of space or visibility.

I just dont want to accidentally damage the only tree he wants to keep!

 

[BC WetCoast]

Limb the pine, tie the top through a crotch/false crotch to the magnolia - portawrap. Cut the base of the pine, lower and remove bottom chunks.

 

[tree md]

A couple of ways to do it. Limb the pine up to avoid collateral damage and lower from a good rigging point in the Mag or just climb the mag and cut it in pieces that you can handle and chuck it into a safe landing zone. Sounds elementary. Pics would help.

 

[YankeeinSC]

All good advice. I'll get pics next time we work the place.

 

[Greenstar]

Use some rigging expertise.
Set a line from the tallest closest tree down to the tallest point in the magnolia, with a block in the magnolia, and portawrap (bcos I think mags are pretty fragile bark, right)
Anyway, a tightrope high above, as high as you can put it, and rig somethinhg like this, using your mind, not your back, with multiple ropes, a zip line, and remove the pine that way.

Can you set a rope in the top of the pine, or is it too rotted?

See, if it is tied/affixed to the tightrope in a fixed location, it can be lowered AWAY from the magnolia, eventhough the magnolia is shorter, by just lowering the tightrope through the portawrap from the magnolia, it'll move in the direction of the bigger taller tree across the yard!

If you involve winches, or trucks and pulleys, your options are even greater. these are my thoughts...

ps. may take you two hours, but when its done successfully, you feel like a pro, and everyone around is pretty impressed. We just pull out the cellphones, so we're not yelling way across the yard to the guy in front who's driving the truck. (we don't have a winch).

 

[Rftreeman]

Limb the pine, tie the top through a crotch/false crotch to the magnolia - portawrap. Cut the base of the pine, lower and remove bottom chunks.

this is the way I'd do it but I'd tie the pine off first so just in case you cut a limb that is supporting the pine it doesn't fall and mess you or the magnolia up, then just do what BC stated.

 

[YankeeinSC]

OK so we have a good plan. Properly rigged I can see how you wouldn't need to be in the magnolia as you could section the pine from the bottom.

What about the strength of the magnolia? Seems to me I always see them fractured after a very minor ice load or lower velocity wind storm?!! When they fail it looks to me like they are brittle & inflexible. Obviously the magnolia has been supporting the pine for a while anyhow, but it's a leaning load gently cradled in branches not a fully supported load on the trunk.

Since I dont have a GRCS or similar device, I'm envisioning a line from the truck winch to a turning block at the base of the magnolia that goes straight up to a 180 turn on the false crotch. The base of the magnolia can certainly take the load of the 90 degree turn, but what about the false crotch point 35 feet up?

 

[tree md]

My experience with Magnolias are they are very brittle and easy to damage and damage sticks out on them like a sore thumb. If you think the pine weighs more than the mag then I would definitely not try to hang the pine out of it. If the pine has been dead for awhile then it is probably considerably lighter but at that point I wouldn't try hanging it. Do you want to be standing under a dead pine cutting it from the bottom and be guessing about it's structural integrity? If it has been dead for awhile I would try to bomb it out if you have room to drop small pieces or lower small chunks from the magnolia being careful not to damage it.

Edit: lower small chunks from the pine itself and try not to damage the magnolia in the process. Stay tied in to the magnolia and you could even back up your rigging in the magnolia if propert damage would be imminent should the rigging fail in the pine. Better to damage the magnolia than the structure should something go wrong. Hard to tell without pics though.

 

[Greenstar]

Wow, I'm glad everyone paid attention to my post!? :greenchainsaw:

 

[Rftreeman]

Wow, I'm glad everyone paid attention to my post!? :greenchainsaw:

I read it three times and still can't picture what you're talking about...

 

[oldirty]

I read it three times and still can't picture what you're talking about...

lol

 

[Greenstar]

Its setup kinda like a zip line from treetop to treetop, from top of magnolia to top of some other TALLER tree close by. You can set all these lines from the ground too w/ some good throw line technique.
It all just takes patience, and a little creativity. Dont be afraid to try.
You might need two-three ropes in the end to pull it all off, but again, all it is is patience (e.g. winding the ropes back up afterward, setting lines, using throw bags, etc...and not letting annoying groundies who dont have a clue what ur doing talk too much and disrupt your concentration, creativity, and planning process.) It can all be done from the ground.

Basically its like having the top of the dead rotted pine roped off to two different trees at the same time, another tall tree somewhere in the yard, AND the top of the magnolia.

Try to choose a third tree (another taller tree somewhere in the yard) that is inline with the mag and pine.

I just thought of a simple way:
Use your throwline to achieve a crotch up in the pine. Set TWO LINES IN THE PINE. Then tie a running bowline off and pull it up tight up in pine, to affix the end of the line.
Use your throwline on, or climb, the magnolia to achieve a high crotch in this tree, and set one of the lines from the pine through this crotch and then to the ground.
Do this with the other line in the taller tree (set the other line from pine to crotch high up in other tree.)

BASICALLY you're using two lowering lines.

AND if you're creative, when I was talking about blocks earlier in my post above. you could set a block up in the taller tree AND even start pulling the pine away from the mag, BUT in a controlled manner..

Peace, Hope that helps!
I'd like to hear how it works for you!

 

[Rftreeman]

Its setup kinda like a zip line from treetop to treetop, from top of magnolia to top of some other TALLER tree close by. You can set all these lines from the ground too w/ some good throw line technique.
It all just takes patience, and a little creativity. Dont be afraid to try.
You might need two-three ropes in the end to pull it all off, but again, all it is is patience (e.g. winding the ropes back up afterward, setting lines, using throw bags, etc...and not letting annoying groundies who dont have a clue what ur doing talk too much and disrupt your concentration, creativity, and planning process.) It can all be done from the ground.

Basically its like having the top of the dead rotted pine roped off to two different trees at the same time, another tall tree somewhere in the yard, AND the top of the magnolia.

Try to choose a third tree (another taller tree somewhere in the yard) that is inline with the mag and pine.

I just thought of a simple way:
Use your throwline to achieve a crotch up in the pine. Set TWO LINES IN THE PINE. Then tie a running bowline off and pull it up tight up in pine, to affix the end of the line.
Use your throwline on, or climb, the magnolia to achieve a high crotch in this tree, and set one of the lines from the pine through this crotch and then to the ground.
Do this with the other line in the taller tree (set the other line from pine to crotch high up in other tree.)

BASICALLY you're using two lowering lines.

AND if you're creative, when I was talking about blocks earlier in my post above. you could set a block up in the taller tree AND even start pulling the pine away from the mag, BUT in a controlled manner..

Peace, Hope that helps!
I'd like to hear how it works for you!

Man...... I ain't got that many ropes........lol

 

[Greenstar]

...
BASICALLY you're using two lowering lines.
...

You don't have two ropes? Thats all you need. What is wrong with you dude! :monkey:

 

[Rftreeman]

You don't have two ropes? Thats all you need. What is wrong with you dude! :monkey:

Nothing wrong........I'm just as Lynyrd Skynyrd says a "Simple Man".....


Simple Man

 

[randyg]

Help!


The new HO wants to keep the Magnolia and didn't even know the pine was there (brush and ivy) until I pointed out what a danger it was! ?

How big could this pine be IF the HO did not even know it was there?????

Pics would help, but please a little more info? DBH of the pine? Before we go scheme up some fancy trapeze with another tree nearby, can you tell us, ARE THERE ANY?

 

[YankeeinSC]

How big could this pine be IF the HO did not even know it was there?????

Pics would help, but please a little more info? DBH of the pine? Before we go scheme up some fancy trapeze with another tree nearby, can you tell us, ARE THERE ANY?

Sorry no pics yet, the HO wants one day of work each month to fit his budget and to try to get the municipality to haul the yard waste because he didn't want to pay dump fees. He pays cash, so who am I to argue. The yard was an absolute mess and has generated mountains of brush. Closer to woods than a yard. 5 foot high brush, ivy and vines that have strangled several trees. The leaves were full on the magnolia all the way to the ground. I had to climb in behind the mag to find the pine. The HO is a city kid and thinks he lives in the country because he has a yard now. This is his first house and he just had a new baby and he's currently deployed, so he's busy.

Prior to a ton of brush out that we just did last week, you couldn't see it from 20 yards away. Yes the pine is big enough to need some sort of rigging. Pine DBH? maybe only 18". The leaves are full on the magnolia but I had a chance to limb it up some the last time I worked the yard and now the pine is obvious. All of the near by trees are smaller 10 and 12 inch oaks. HO want's to see progress from the house outwards as we reclaim the yard, so my plan was to remove the cluster of the nearest trees before tackling the pine. I'll take a look however and see if one or more might aide in rigging but I rather doubt it because of their size and distance from the pine.

This home is 50-60 years old in an even older neighborhood. The yard is rectangular shaped with the ranch home in the very center. I couldn't believe it, but there is one utility pole on the back lot-line. for the 6 homes on the small block. The power to both homes on either side of the subject home, get their power feed from that same pole OVER the subject back yard! So there are 3 sets of utility (power and communications) lines running through the work site. One is between the trees that could be used as adjacent tie/rig points. I can't believe that it's not some sort of code violation, but hey it is the south and given the age of the homes, codes may have been different when they were built. If I were the owner I'd get it addressed and get my neighbors power redirected and out of my back yard even if I had to pay to do so.

The neighbor on the right had asked me about removing a tree in his yard too because the server to a website he ran was critical and a large pine had been stretching the lines over the years. I told him call the power company. He must have done so. One of the utility companies removed the tree after I'd started this project, but they didn't make an effort to relocate the lines which now loosely and sloppily hang 8 feet off the ground without the tree leaning and keeping them taunt.