Planter around my maple killing it?

[mrkartoom]

First off sorry if this is already a heavily discussed topic. . .

Not knowing any better I built a planter around the base of a maple tree in my front yard about 5-6 years ago. The tree is about 20" in diameter and the planter was about 16" deep and 5' in diameter.

It looked nice, but the last couple of years my maple has been dying. It started in the top and center of the tree. What was once a beautiful, full tree is now thin and very late to bud this year. I had one person tell me a couple years ago it was from fungus here in the northeast and I have noticed similar problems with the adjacent maple, but not nearly as bad as this one.

Recently I had an arborist tell me it was my planter and to remove it if the bark was not rotted. I have taken as much of the planter awaty as I dare because I have found many .5 to 1" size roots in there and many very tiny ones as well. I can't tell if the bark is rotted or not, but it certainly looks different than that above the dirt level.

My question is what should I do and can this tree be saved? I did read a thread where roots this size were removed and of little consequence. I'm not sure of I should go back to orignal ground level and mulch around it or fill the dirt back in over all these new roots and affected bark and then mulch, or something else. Not sure if pics would help and I haven't taken any yet.

Any ideas or information on what I should do if anything would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully it can be saved.:help:

Thanks,

John

 

[elmnut]

Move the soil away from the trunk, prune off the roots(they are only there as a result of the added soil) The tree exchanges gases with the atmosphere via small "openings" called lenticels in the bark, soil piled against the tree can stop the process. The roots are called adventitious roots, they often become girdling roots. You can leave the planter intact, just pull the soil away from the trunk a few inches.

 

[mrkartoom]

Move the soil away from the trunk, prune off the roots(they are only there as a result of the added soil) The tree exchanges gases with the atmosphere via small "openings" called lenticels in the bark, soil piled against the tree can stop the process. The roots are called adventitious roots, they often become girdling roots. You can leave the planter intact, just pull the soil away from the trunk a few inches.

Thanks for the info. I was told the tree "breathes" through the base and now that makes more sense. I've already taken the planter down and as much soil as I dared. I'll remove the roots and get the rest of the dirt away. Should I be concerend about the condition of the bark that was under the dirt?

thanks again.

 

[Ekka]

16" of soil build up was too wild, where did you get that idea?

Need to stop it in it's tracks.

 

[mrkartoom]

16" of soil build up was too wild, where did you get that idea?

Need to stop it in it's tracks.

The wife saw one and being the good hubby (read dummy) I built the thing for her. Like I said I didn't know any better.

 

[whitenack]

Do you have any pics of the bark?

I did an excavation of a young maple last year. The tree is growing beautifully this year.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=431479&postcount=14

 

[treeseer]

Be cautious about removing roots if they are growing away from the trunk. Remove all the soil you can from the trunk and post pictures of that area.

 

[underwor]

I am fighting a similar battle on campus with the physical plant supervisor. Ex farmer who thinks everything should be flat and level, so fills in every little dip. Usually with the local "black dirt" (lake bottom muck). I have pointed out to his boss that he never planted a crop that lived over a year in his life, so he has no idea about plant roots needing oxygen. He believes in multiple passes with the bobcat to level his work. It is going to hit the fan one of these days. So don't feel bad about not knowing any better. Some who should don't either.

 

[mrkartoom]

Do you have any pics of the bark?

I did an excavation of a young maple last year. The tree is growing beautifully this year.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=431479&postcount=14

whitenack,
I haven' taken any pics yet, but I will. Your post is very informative and while my tree is much older, the excavated bark looks to be in very similar condition. I haven' dug down to the flare yet or exposed all of the new roots.

What did you ultimately end up doing that saved your tree? Was it in bad shape beforehand?

treeseer,
I'll dig down before I take pics. Maybe you can tell me if all these roots are safe to cut out.

thanks

 

[whitenack]

whitenack,

What did you ultimately end up doing that saved your tree? Was it in bad shape beforehand?

The tree wasn't in bad shape...yet. I had just planted it a few years before, so it really hadn't had a chance to get in trouble. However, you can see by the photos, the roots were going to strangle the tree at some point.

What I did was try to redirect the roots the best I could. Since they were now above the soil, I did my best to push them down and bury them below the new surface. Some of the smaller roots were easy to bury, some of the bigger roots were impossible. With those roots, I cut them off and pulled them out. I was very nervous about this, because it seemed like I was cutting off a lot of roots. However, I made up my mind that I was going to get this thing right, even if it killed the tree. The tree wasn't that old, so I figured if it died I could start over without much loss of time.

After getting all the roots in place and burying them below the surface, I mulched good and watered extensively. I probably watered abundantly every few days for several weeks. I knew that I had just disrupted the trees water intake, so I wanted to make it easy for the tree to get water. Plus, I had help (see the pic to the left under my name). Even with all that water, I did notice some dry edges around a few of the leaves. It didn't get to the point of the leaves dying and dropping off, but there were signs of dryness, even though I was watering faithfully.

The tree is growing great now. Its almost like I finally gave it what it needs to grow well. It has grown several feet since I did the exc., so I think I am out of the woods.

The only ill effects I notice now is I have a pretty good sucker growing at the base where I cut off a root. Its not a big deal, but I do have to cut it back every now and then.

Here are some pics of the final product.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=432067#post432067

I suggest you remove all the dirt down to the original soil line, removing any roots as you go. Post pics at that point. It could be that you need to dig down below the original soil line too.

Don't be scared to hurt the tree. From the sound of it, it is dying anyway. Either you take a chance by excavating the root flare properly and accidentally kill it, or it dies anyway from suffocation.

 

[mrkartoom]

thanks all good info. I'll get some pics when I get home from work today. Hopefully it's not too late to save this tree.

 

[Dixie1]

good article on this subject. very much pertains to your dilema. good luck!
http://on-line-seminars.com/pb/wp_30726029.html?0.5981308301450574

 

[mrkartoom]

I excavated down to ground level today and took these pics. Hopefully I went deep enough to see what's going. I've got some of what I guess are small girdling roots and bark that I not sure about, assuming I should be concerned about it's condition. Take a look and let me know what I should do with this.

This pic shows the tree now. It's leafing very late and disregarding the need for a good pruning used to be the thickest tree in my yard, even more full than the one in the next pic. At one time it was tough to see sunlight through it. Most of the dead stuff is in the middle of the tree.

It's healthier neighbor:

This pic show the mold or fungus or whatever type of growth this stuff is. I'm not sure if this is something to worry about or not. I took it before I excavated to ground level obviously.

This one is just after excavating to ground level. The contrast isn't great, but I assume you can see the main roots.

I washed off the dirt to get a better look here. You can see the condition of the bark. Is this a problem? I've also arrowed this crossing root that I'm not sure about. I assume it is new. Is it a concern?

Another angle:

This pic shows some other roots that I am not sure about. They look small so I assume they are new and they all extend away from the trunk at just below the original ground level (long arrow points awy from trunk). The left-most one is about 2" in diameter.

Final pic here is of the deads stuff in the center. This is about 7-8 inches in diameter and prety much dead-center of the tree. Not sure what I should do with this. Cut off and seal?

Finally, hope these pics help. If I need to dig more let me know. I guess I just need to know what to do next, like cut all these little roots out and put an inch or two of dirt back up to the base? This has been really a learning process and I appreciate everyone's help.

John

 

[treeseer]

planting depth is not bad, and there is only the one stem-girdling root. Yes you should clip off that big one and put the soil back over the rest. Root-girdling roots are not a major problem, becasue root tissue will graft to root tissue.

The last pic is really disturbing--looks like the central leader was topped a while ago leaving that big rotting stub. All the dead branches should be pruned back to the collar--see Pruning Mature Trees in the link below. This will not make or break your tree's survival chances, but it is good to do and will at least de-uglify it.

If all the dead/dying branches are interior that is a good thing. Looks like transplant shock to me, possibly aggravated by suffocation/drowning due to poor preparation of soil outside the planting hole. Ground SHOULD have been broken up 2-3x the diameter of the rootball.

Your next assignment is what I first suggested--dig down outside the planting hole to the bottom and see if water is standing inside it. Roots need drainage--see New Tree Planting in the link below.

 

[DGG]

When replacing the soil would it be good to make it really sandy so you have good drainage and aeration?

 

[whitenack]

Excellent pictures.

It looks like the original soil depth was proper. I believe I am seeing the start of the root flare exposed now. That's good.

As treeseer said, it looks like it has been topped, or at least pruned heavily. That puts a lot of stress on the tree. That could be the problem, and not the planter, although the planter didn't help.

I'll defer to the experts as to what to do next.

 

[mrkartoom]

The last pic is really disturbing--looks like the central leader was topped a while ago leaving that big rotting stub. All the dead branches should be pruned back to the collar--see Pruning Mature Trees in the link below. This will not make or break your tree's survival chances, but it is good to do and will at least de-uglify it.

If all the dead/dying branches are interior that is a good thing. Looks like transplant shock to me, possibly aggravated by suffocation/drowning due to poor preparation of soil outside the planting hole. Ground SHOULD have been broken up 2-3x the diameter of the rootball.

Believe it or not that central dead stub is not a cut, but rather just where it snapped of clean while dying. From that angle it does look cut. I'll prune it and the other dead ones back that I can get to. And it does seem that most of the dead stuff is in the center of the tree.

Not sure about what happened to it in early life. The house was built in 1985 and I have no idea if it was planted at construction or already there. It seems awfully bug to be only 22 years old, but I really have no idea. I only know it looked to be doing fine until I put my planter in. thanks

john

 

[mrkartoom]

I dont see 'transplant shock' and 'poor soil preparation' as being the problem with a maple that is 20 inches in diameter. As for digging to the bottom of the planting hole.........there is no planting hole left on a maple of this size, it's all roots down there.

What I see is a lush lawn right up to the other maple tree trunk. I imagine lots of water goes on that lawn and likely broad leafed weed herbicide usage for lawn weed control(trees are broad leafed weeds). Maples are also susceptible to infestation of scale that can cause decline. It may also be that a damaging herbicide was used to kill weeds around the planter box.

Verticillium Wilt is also a likely candidate and is made worse by high levels of fertilizer applied to the lawn. The link tells you how to diagnose and attempt to control verticillium wilt.
http://www.caes.state.ct.us/FactSheetFiles/PlantPathology/fspp060f.htm

Like was suggested I would put a small amount of soil over the exposed roots and then mulch. Good sized mulched areas two or three inches deep around your trees are a good idea. Don't pile mulch up against the trunk and do make the beds as large as you can, ten feet or larger in diameter.

The growth on the sides of the trunk are harmless lichens.

Can you get us a close up of dead and dying twigs so we can check for scale? Do you use lawn herbicides maybe in a 'weed and feed' type fertilizer? How often do you water the lawn and how much water do you apply at one time?

Thanks,

Dan

Hmmmmmmm much more to chew on here.

You are correct I apply weed/feed w/crabgreass preventer in spring, then weed/feed during the summer and the winterizer late fall. I have been using Scotts brand, which seems to do better that the generic Agway stuff I used before. Never suspected this could hurt the trees, but the others look healthy enough. I never used anything else other than ground ivy killer, but that was only near the other trees and never within 30ft. of this one.

As for watering I never really water the lawn. Maybe during the rare summer drought. Mother Nature is very generous in this regard to New England much of the year. We did water the planter daily that was around the tree, but only enough for the flowers in it.

I'll take some pics of the dead twigs this evening. So should I cut out all these new roots (the ones above ground level)?

thanks

 

[Dixie1]

you say you used ground ivy killer? can you look to see if its active ingredient is dicamba? this can be VERY harmful if applied under or near trees as it is readily absorbed into the soil. the other products should be okay.

 

[mrkartoom]

My money says that cut was made after the limb died.

The way the limbs all originate in one area does look like maybe a large topping cut was made some years ago, but maybe not. A closeup pic would help.

It looks to me like that cut was made after the limb died as there is no growth after the cut. I doubt that cut limb has a branch collar as it originates in the middle of a cluster of limbs in the center of the tree.

I can see why everyone thinks this is a cut from this angle, but it's just where the dead stuff broke off. Other than a couple low-hanging branches that I cut myself it's never been pruned to my knowledge.

Yes it is the centermost branch of the tree, so no real collar.