Please advise on Stihl “Frankensaw”

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Cylinder does not look too bad. One picture has something below the ex port, may be reflection or the picture/

Piston looks like some sort of debris embedded on intake side. Try to figure out if that came in the intake port, or it's metal from the bottom end. What does ex side of piston look like?

That may be OEM piston? Is it stamped on top A, B, or A/B?

Looks like it has been as debris eater- also looks to have a fair bit of skirt wear, especially intake side?
But I agree, cylinder does not look too bad but possibly was honed by a previous owner? Looks to be some cross hatching over wear debris scratch type marks?
That and it seems exceedingly clean around the squish band and combustion chamber.

 

[Ocala]

I can’t see anything on top of the piston. The only identification I found is inside, enlarged here. The other side of the inside of the piston has a “1”

Here’s a couple showing more detail of the piston.

I’m wondering if the play where the piston rod connects to the crank is normal.

I put a short video of the movement in the post that had all the pictures of the cylinder and piston. Here it is again…

Again I really do appreciate the advice, I don’t know what I’m doing and trying to figure it out as I go.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Aligned and controlled side to side movement of the big end of the con rod on the crank bearing is normal.
ANY up and down movement of the rod on that bearing independent of the crank is a no no, as is elliptical travel of the conrod on the bearing and there needs to be smooth rotational travel of all components within there normal operational rotation- no gritty feel, no binding, no graunching nor grinding.

 

[Ocala]

Aligned and controlled side to side movement of the big end of the con rod on the crank bearing is normal.
ANY up and down movement of the rod on that bearing independent of the crank is a no no, as is elliptical travel of the conrod on the bearing and there needs to be smooth rotational travel of all components within there normal operational rotation- no gritty feel, no binding, no graunching nor grinding.

It does feel smooth. The filter housing when I got the saw was the dirtiest I’ve ever seen, not a good sign I know.

Would it be ok to rinse the entire case, inside and out, in a gas oil mix?

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

It does feel smooth. The filter housing when I got the saw was the dirtiest I’ve ever seen, not a good sign I know.

Would it be ok to rinse the entire case, inside and out, in a gas oil mix?

Yes it would, in fact I would recommend it.

 

[Mad Professor]

On the piston crown clean the carbon off. You might find markings underneath that. They will be stamped not cast.

 

[Ocala]

On the piston crown clean the carbon off. You might find markings underneath that. They will be stamped not cast.

Thanks I’ll check that. I was pulling up a fence with a tractor today so I wasn’t keeping up with the thread,

So since I have an OEM cylinder and possibly piston, given that I had low compression is there a possibility of honing the cylinder and going up a size on the rings?

Or anything else that would work?

Thanks again.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Thanks I’ll check that. I was pulling up a fence with a tractor today so I wasn’t keeping up with the thread,

So since I have an OEM cylinder and possibly piston, given that I had low compression is there a possibility of honing the cylinder and going up a size on the rings?

Or anything else that would work?

Thanks again.

You have to remove and inspect all aspects of the internals- remove by either acid, sandpaper- or both any transfer of alloy from the piston to the cylinder walls- check for any scoring through the plating of the cylinder that can catch a fingernail or just feel ugly and any chipping or nicks in the plating around the ports. Then the same with the piston- measure skirt clearances for excessive wear, ring grooves for damage, ring retaining pins for firm connection still to the piston body- removal of excess carbon build up and then fitting of new rings.
Lots of clear photographs on here will be your friend- there are a lot of very good saw mechanics in here and some that went to youtube university or rely on what others have told them more than their own actual experiences inside two stroke engines- both will offer their advice and it should become pretty clear pretty quickly who's to follow.
Generally, honing of nikasil plated cylinders is not to be advised- clean up and removal of transfer is fine- attacking with a hone for the inexperienced and uninitiated is not to be advised- ball hones are another kettle of fish and once again stepping into the unneeded expense for a one off use. Good clear photos of the internals of your cylinder are needed.

 

[Ocala]

On the piston crown clean the carbon off. You might find markings underneath that. They will be stamped not cast.

No stamp that I can see.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

View attachment 1073706

No stamp that I can see.

Is that an A to the top left of the arrow- or just wishful thinking by my old eyes? Looks to be a 1 at around clockface "2" from the arrow if the arrow was "12"

 

[Mad Professor]

View attachment 1073706

No stamp that I can see.

Not a Stihl

something like this, an arrow, stihl logo, and A B C or AB

064 A/B piston

 

[Ocala]

Here’s some of the inside of the cylinder

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Here’s some of the inside of the cylinder

Well, just going off your questions thus far and the photos you just put up- here are my thoughts.
I would be going new top end and checking the bottom end out REAL well.
That cylinder and possibly that piston can be saved and might run for a good bit, but there are some concerns with it.
To me it looks like it has eaten some stuff- there are a couple of evidence marks up the piston and through the rings I don't like, looks like a previous owner might have honed over some ugly marks and there are some thin looking areas in the plating and a possible chip near the bottom of the upper transfer.
There is just enough happening with that set that I would worry about. Now thats okay if it is your saw and you know about it and you are fully aware it might die soon and need a new top end and you have all the tools and knowledge needed to put it right easily, but not so flash for a first build- or a saw you want to on sell in the near future.
At the end of the day- its your money and your machine- cylinder might look a whole lot better in the flesh than it does in a monitor some 13,000 miles away- but those are my thoughts.

 

[Mad Professor]

Why do people use such aggressive grit for honing nikasil ?

This is one I cleaned up 036.



This is new 034

 

[Ocala]

Looks like from the S/N, in the picture you posted, the part number you want for the Piston pin is 1128 034 1501.
Tha6t woould be the 12mm.
Attached is an IPL of the Cylinder and piston for that serial number.

Not sure how a picture of a MS 260 S/N barcode got posted.

But good luck on your rebuild.

Thank you this will be really helpful.

Any possibility you could post the same file for the body of the saw?

Thanks again

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Thank you this will be really helpful.

Any possibility you could post the same file for the body of the saw?

Thanks again

Just google search an IPL for the Stihl MS 462?

 

[teacherman]

My guess is with the sticker on the front of the case that it is a low use saw.

Before you take it to a dealer for service, know that if it is listed as stolen in the database, you will not get it back...

 

[teacherman]

I can’t see anything on top of the piston. The only identification I found is inside, enlarged here. The other side of the inside of the piston has a “1”

Here’s a couple showing more detail of the piston.

I’m wondering if the play where the piston rod connects to the crank is normal.

I put a short video of the movement in the post that had all the pictures of the cylinder and piston. Here it is again…

Again I really do appreciate the advice, I don’t know what I’m doing and trying to figure it out as I go.
View attachment 1073391View attachment 1073392View attachment 1073393

Piston will slide back and forth on the wrist pin, a surprising amount, but that is the only play that should be there. THat piston has been scored. It might be useable, but it might have begun to run lean. Oil seals?

So you can check vacuum with an auto parts vacuum tool, as is used to bleed brakes. Put it on the impulse tube barb in carburetor housing (If the motor is assembled...), put Gorilla tape over the muffler opening AND over the throat of the carburetor, stick em both tight. It will indent a bit, but if a clean seal it should hold vacuum. This method will work, even though a number of people on here will poopoo it. Anything less than full hold means seals, which are replaceable. The Stihl tool is best, but many people on here have done it using notched screwdrivers and such. I do not know what brand of aftermarket seals are good, but Stihl parts might be hard to find, having been declared obsolete.
Look for a thread detailing removal of aluminum deposits from cylinder, using muriatic and Q tips. Aluminum is gone when fresh swabs stop turning green, and not before. Be sure to stay away from the ports, only cleaning the Nikasil plating and not the aluminum casting... also be certain to neutralize the cylinder afterward with purple cleaner, called Castro super clean. This does work, it does make a perfectly new bore surface, if a bit smooth. Rings will still eventually seat in, or you can very sparsely use 600 grit wet or dry to scuff the polished bore. Andy Nobbs, AS handle Lakeside 53, was one of the main saw gurus from years back. His threads, if findable, are an absolute wealth of legit info. He discussed this process at length. All the old pictures were lost some years back, but the threads might stihl exist, maybe. Mad Professor is one smart dude as well; if he says it, it is very likely so. A lot of knowledge on here, to be sure.

Good luck!

 

[cookies]

The way it looked being scored and previously cobbled together I would highly suggest a full tear down and wash everything in diesel to inspect everything for damage from ingesting debris. That was run without air filtration and lower end damage could have occurred and there is no reason to sink hundreds into a saw to reuse 30 year old crank seals only to have them fail resulting in engine damage. 440/044 can be a great saw with good power even if its a bit beat up, also closely inspect the rubber annular buffer bushings for tears. Some times it takes 3 washes in diesel then a wash in hot soapy water to get things really clean, thats how clean you want eerything including inside the mufffler before you put it back together to protect your engine.

 

[teacherman]

I started to take down the 440 tonight. I’m actually thinking the cylinder MIGHT be OEM. I’ll know better when I can remove it.

I know I need a long T drive, not sure what size… anyone know?

T27. Please forgive me if someone already answered.