Plunge Cuts

[Crofter]

Instructors who aren't Crackerjacks themselves

I have met people who were so called crackerjacks at their trade who would not make good instructors. They sometimes depend too much on their own good judgement and excellent reflexes. You have to remember that a lot of the students taking these courses dont " have it in their blood " and they are not rocket scientists. You have to impress upon them the dangers and to keep themselves out of the situations where they would have to depend on reflexes etc. The expert is often too keen to get them up to speed and perhaps has a bit of personal denial of the dangers involved. Firsst give them the safety and scare the bejeesus out of them, then turn them over to the person who can show them how to produce. I am not saying that one person can not give the students a well rounded training program, just that the person with 20 yeaas cutting experience himself, is not necessarilly the makings of a good instructor. Machismo doesn't have a lot of place in safety instruction, so there! Lol.

Frank

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

I understand where you are coming from Marty I'm certified and have to get recertified every four years from the NHTHC,every two years for CPR.I'am by no means telling anyone to just go and fell trees it is very important to get proper training and learn from someone elses expierence,I have attended the GOL about 3 years ago and plan on going again in the spring I think training is a very important thing to stress to people who want to learn the skill of timber falling etc..Saftey gear is also very important to wear,besides John I personally know a few guys in my area that don't wear anything but chaps no helmet,hearing protectors,gloves,etc..and they probally never will until it's too late but some people just don't want to listen to advice.


later Rob.

 

[jokers]

Hey Gypo, is that my Greffardized MS260 being driven into the dirt!!!? Naw, didn`t really think so because I can`t run it long enough to block up THAT much wood. Thanks Stihl for that fixed jet, keeps me from fookulating my saw, lol. Also keeps me from using it, but hey, it ought to last forever at this rate. BTW, I agree with your post on training. Russ

 

[logcutter429]

I would have loved to had the training courses available these days, back 24 years ago iwas working setinng chokers and working landing, working for my father-in law in northern calf. one day he bought me and his son a mackuck 850 with 36" bars and pointed to the woods, it took both of us with hangups , barberchairs, how we stayed alive i'll never know, but we managed but i would probably be one that would'nt be a good teacher cause i do things that i use my experience, and reflexes on things for productions sake, and i would hate to show someone something that would get them hurt or worse, everyone now needs to take advantage to every bit of training available, it might save your life.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Russ, it was actually an 038 I let a woodtick use. I was training him and his dad, but there is a clause that if they die learning they get buried in the hungry hollow with the saw as a headstone.
John

 

[glens]

Originally posted by Chainsaw_Maniac
I strongly recomend this site. Pay special attention to "felling techniques".

http://international.husqvarna.com/node51.asp

At the new <s>abomination</s> website, it's http://international.husqvarna.com/node1462.asp

Glen

 

[John Ellison]

429
I know what you mean about wishing you would have had some instruction when you started. I went through the same thing when I started falling in S.E. Alaska. Had worked in the rigging and run a saw a lot on the landing, But.... overwhelmed I think is the word. Tall, defective timber is not the best thing to start out on.
I cut mostly pine here in Ark. and its a walk in the park compared to Ak. I think it (short softwood) would be perfect to break in on.

As the rigging crew would yell coming out of a turn,

Run or die!
John

 

[Crofter]

I am cutting up a trailer load of 8 ft logs for stove wood and figured it would be a good place to practice some plunge cuts. The chain I am using is Carlton pro semi chisel with no bumper or guard ramps, but it just did not want to bore or cut over the tip. The nose of the depth guides seem to project a long ways ahead of the front rivet and appeared to rise up when the chain bends to go around the noseand kept the cutters from contacting the wood. The raker clearance in the belly of the bar is 25. thou so I didnt want to increase that. Any way I took a file and rounded off the nose of the depth guides about 25 thou. and just blended it into nothing off the tip of the raker and it bores like shucks now. Is is common to have to do this to make the new chains bore? I don't remember that being a problem 15 years ago, but admittedly there was quite a gap in my chainsaw education.

Frank

 

[Tony Snyder]

Crofter,

I sell Carlton chain. I have been getting some feed back from loggers that do a lot of boring that Carlton won't bore well ( A2LM full chisel ). I have to keep some Oregon around for those guys.

I intend to call Carlton and ask them what is going on.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

There are good points in this thread about education. Having a good education and following safe work practices will make older, healthier tree workers. I can't speak about logging but I've observed, along with others my age, that there are getting to be more older arbos who are still productive. Not too long ago, the top of the bell curve was in the mid to late thirties. We're seeing the bell curve move ahead. We agree that the reason is because of good safety and a mind set of getting educated too.

In England they have a much more formal education and testing program for chain saw use and tree work. Government regulated. Any of the literature that I've seen seems to have been developed from the bottom up so it makes sense in the field. Top down regulations rarely work in any situation. I think that arboriculture would benefit from the English system but there would be a h*llfire to try and get that implemented. Too many people think that it's their "Right" to be allowed to hurt themselves even when they know that they're breaking regulations. Until there is a disclaimer for willfull stupidity, we'll still see injuries and deaths.

Enough ranting, huh?

Tom

 

[buckwheat]

The interesting thing about the "English system" is that many of the regulations are institutionalized from trade guild practices developed in the 1600's and before. To be a tradesman, one had to develop very specific skills as an apprentice, and you kept those skills as secret as possible to prevent "the commoners" from doing your specialized work, and to protect your wage level.

I don't think that there were arborist/tradesmen back then, but the mindset of having very regulated skills and safety practices probably carried over. Just as chimney sweeps still wear the top hat and overcoat, I wonder if the arborists in England have any quirky traditions continued from the past.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Buckwheat,

You're right, the traditions are rooted in the guilds. That mentality has seemed to carry forward.

Do you think that the American mentality would be open to this type of institutional training and certification?

Or, do you think that the American attitude of Yankee ingenuity and the Wild West attitude is so intrenched that regulations are thought of as limiting?

Tom

 

[buckwheat]

I think the type of people who pride themselves on their chainsaw skills are also the type to spurn any type of government intervention regarding such use. While we respect those who make a living using a saw, we also feel that we too could achieve that skill level using our wits and experience. I make no judgement here; just my observations about our culture and the sawyer's mentality.

 

[Crofter]

There are a lot of people who get a "rush" out of tempting fate. Given options, the slightly riskyier but skill demanding route will be the one chosen. This business attracts a high percentage of people who exhibit a bit of contrariness. The safety department of the logging company I worked for did some character profiling to support this. It exists right up through the ranks into the supervision. It is sometimes hard to get good cooperation from people who are competetive and strong individualists. (no kidding). It is said in the Good Book "blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the world" I wonder where in H they will get the cutters and log truck drivers though. Lol!


Frank

 

[Gypo Logger]

In view of the fact that most things we worry about never happen, safety is a very personal thing and starts with mental poise and being comfortable with your surroundings.
We cant approach life by making sure all our T's are crossed and I's dotted. Look danger straight in the face with respect and know when your beat. Always think ahead what your next move shall be, but most of all, know yourself and your limitations.
Be a law unto yourself and you will live a long time. If you love what you do and are passionate about your work, the grim reeper will turn its tail and run till it is your time to be called back to earth's clean dirt.
John

 

[glens]

Little Lumber Jill sure is a cutie.&nbsp; I see she's practicing the law-unto-herself of swinging her axe cross-handed.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Glen, as you noted, the picture was staged spontaneously. My daughter likes to go with me to the woods. She feels at home there and understands what I do for a living. Here is a picture she took of me falling a rotten hockey stick today, which really shows the terrain rather well.
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

A good log is like a log buyer, it has no heart.
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Before I get congratualated for my rapsodic and eloquent literary disertation of life, I thought I would appeal to your intelligence by attaching this picture of some green gold.
Franks Planks

 

[WOLF_RIVER_MIKE]

OLN has been showing the IronJack competitions here the last few weeks. The last show I saw, the stock saw comp, was plunge cutting. The saw was on the ground, you picked it up, plunged the 066 (i'm guessing) thru 16" aspen cut down and thru swing it up and cut the top half. Don't remember the times but it was impressive. Very little tilt to the saw body, just enough to bury the nose and the straight thru. The IronJack comps are pretty cool. How wood this be graded?