points question

[begleytree]

have an old 028WB I'm working on. intalling new points (and condensor), can anyone tell me what they gap at?
-RAlph

 

[PES+]

.015 plus or minus .001

 

[begleytree]

Thank you, Sir!
-Ralph

 

[oldsaw]

have an old 028WB I'm working on. intalling new points (and condensor), can anyone tell me what they gap at?
-RAlph

Ralph, is there a point to this question? Are you feeling a gap in basic saw knowledge today? Are you condense or what?

Okay, it was cheesy, but I couldn't resist. Hope it goes together smoothly from here.

Mark

 

[PES+]

I was gonna suggest one of those high faloot'n rare earth custom unobtanuim "solid state" ignition chips.....

But then it would be pointless

 

[Lakeside53]

If your points etc don't work out for you, just drop on a 0000 400 1300 ignition.... very common, and available $25-35 used.

 

[PES+]

But it would Stihl be pointless

 

[begleytree]

LMAO. you guys are killing me! :jester:

update. I dropped in the set of points and a new condenser. and set the mag too. this saw has no top end or recoil on it yet, so I put a plug in the boot and turned the flywheel by finger. once.
ZAAAP!. she's firing good and strong.
didnt want to go the pointless route. its a old saw and I wanted to keepit origional, if that makes sense. this is not a production saw, just one of the father-in-laws that I'm bored enough to go through. even has the old 42mm top end on it in good shape. next is rings.
thanks for all the help guys, and the laughs!
-Ralph

 

[ShoerFast]

Feeler gauges are so fickle, ohm/continuity meter/tester and a dial indicator in the plug hole was the best method, beside a timing light looking for a painted fin. But in a nut shell, you want a good starter , with a little more buck on the starter rope when it's hot, but not knuckle busting.

Way back in the day, they were very tweekable, getting the points/timing set right was the bottom line trick to getting #30 weight oil and gas mixed at 16 : 1 to start when it's cold , burn with out to much carbon build up, and not burn a hole in the piston / buck the rope.

It's been 25 years, since I put a set of points in a chainsaw, but if memory serves, too hard to start cold, widen the gap, too much buck in the rope hot, close the gap. Patience in taking it back apart to try something different was a virtue!

 

[ShoerFast]

LMAO. you guys are killing me! :jester:

update. I dropped in the set of points and a new condenser. and set the mag too. this saw has no top end or recoil on it yet, so I put a plug in the boot and turned the flywheel by finger. once.
ZAAAP!. she's firing good and strong.
didnt want to go the pointless route. its a old saw and I wanted to keepit origional, if that makes sense. this is not a production saw, just one of the father-in-laws that I'm bored enough to go through. even has the old 42mm top end on it in good shape. next is rings.
thanks for all the help guys, and the laughs!
-Ralph

My guess, starting that easily wont be that impressive at WOT? You will find out soon enough, more gap if it's too gutless. Just .02 cents worth, but brings back good memories and a couple nightmares.

 

[begleytree]

I never started it. it still has the recoil off of it and no piston and cylinder either. just rebuilt the carb and installed the points tonite before suppertime.

but thatss good info to know. its my first set of points, and they are something to set, when the lobe is on the part you took off for access, and once the part is on, theres no reaching the points.....
so I expect some trial and error on the running. the adjustments mentioned will be most helpfull.
-Ralph

 

[ShoerFast]

Gotcha!

Yes that "ZAAPP!" , yes, it's all coming back to me now!

 

[begleytree]

update

today I got the rings in for this saw. put it together minus the top covers and tried to start it. acted like it was not getting enough gas (new carb kit installed). a little carb adjustment yielded a flooded saw, so I went to the points. pulled the recoil and flywheel off and opened the points a tad. put it together, same. pulled the plug and checked for spark. very weak. again, pulled recoil and flywheel and closed the gap a tad. reassembled. started, ran, barely and died. check plug, no spark. pulled recoil and flywheel another 5 times (total of 7 and I'm getting mad now) each time I make a minor adjustment and reassemble, only to find no spark.
so I gave up.
in the barn I have a 036 pro with busted case and tank I got for parts off DDM. swap out the coil, remove points and condensor from 028. reassemble 028. saw fires up on the first 1/2 pull of the rope. complete assembly of all remaining covers and bar/chain, make a few minor adjustment to the carb and set idle and she's running better than anyone ever remembers.
thanks for all the help guys. another old dinosaur back from the tar pit.

recap. old 028WB ( no chainbrake) serno 5,448,xxx 42mm bore. new rings, carb kit, ign upgrade to electronic, muffler mod. running 18" 325 x 67dl .063.
will post pics, wife at b-day party with camera at the moment.
again, thanks to all who helped with part numbers, gap, ipl, and advice.-Ralph

 

[Lakeside53]

Hmmm... I said something like that . Points can be a bear if you are not used to dealing with them.

Pointless, but it works

 

[Patrick62]

For what it is worth!!?!

I learned points ignition out of necessity, and without books of info on exact gap for the things.

With a magneto there is a very small window of adjustment. The magnet comes whizzing by and magnetizes the coil. Point of maximum satuation is when the points need to open. You can fudge this a degree or two, but not a whole bunch. When the points open the coil releases it stored energy into the windings (both pri and sec). The primary winding will actually charge the cap (condensor) and it will then discharge back into the coil releasing another spark!

ohm meter, and a measure of the piston is a good start. I have brought Moped's back from the grave that way. Then it can be tweaked a bit to give easier starting (less adv), or more power (more adv).

I don't fault the going with electronic since the parts were handy.
My previous 041 is still running it's set of points 27 years later

-Pat

 

[Ax-man]

I have been down this road myself with these saws that have points. The condenser is usually the culprit. I don't know why but a saw is just more tempermental and fussy to make it perform the way it should when it has a point style ignition compared to a four stroke. The experience Ralph had with this 028 has been the same with me on other saws, frustraiting as it can be it sharpens and hones the skills it takes to make a saw run right. I have learned more from these old saws that have points for an ignition system and how they work than I ever cared to know,but it is all good. But I still prefer to work on a saw without points makes life a little easier.

Larry

 

[Oddvaark]

So I find this 028 WB Stihl at a friends house and he gives it to me . Said a friend of his brought it over to fix but he couldn't so he didn't want it back . I got it out yesterday , checked the fire but it looked weak . I do a "search" on AS and find this one , do what Ralph did but I have no fire . I hooked the switch wire to the prong on the coil and am wondering if that was correct ? Do I need to ground it also ?

 

[Al Smith]

Just a broad statement but most people are not real familiar with points type ignitions,plain and simple.

That said,a majority of the time a faulty system can be traced to the low voltage side of the circuit which consists of the points,condenser,kill switch and primary circuit of the coil.The main problem encountered are points that don't close the circuit because of a piece of grit or corrosion of some sort.

Generally speaking you can retard the spark by decreasing the gap or vica versa,advance the spark up to a point.The max voltage is generated when the pole pieces and the magnets are in alignment where the max magnatic lines of flux are being cut,or bisected.It is possible to change perhaps 3 degrees of timing,using just the points gap.By shifting the coil in the opposite direction of rotation and using the points you may get up to 6 or 7 degrees of advance depending on the saw.

Also generally speaking,any thing over about 30 degrees of advance will make the saw real hard to start,it tries to dislocate your arm from your shoulder,a fact I know all too well.As far as stock timing and speaking in broad terms,A Mac is set for 26 degrees advance and a Stihl for 27.I have no idea about the rest of them but would assume them to be in this range as well.

 

[Oddvaark]

What I meant was that I took a coil from an 036 and replaced the old system in the 028 with it . No fire .

 

[Al Smith]

What I meant was that I took a coil from an 036 and replaced the old system in the 028 with it . No fire .

Aha,the plot thickens.The 028 listed three types of ignition systems,a points type Bosc,a pointless Bosc and a solid state SEM.The 036 listed a pointless Bosc and not the same number as the 028.It may or may not work.

It may seem odd but often times the flywheels must be matched to the type system employed.If I'm not mistaken,for example the SEM type has three coil magnets in the flywheel.