Smeagol
ArboristSite Member
Smeagol loves hookless trimmers, young masters. Gives him time to sleep in the truck, it does.
POLL: gaffs on trims or not?
- Thread starter Davidsinatree
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Kneejerk Bombas
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Ne, couldn't you have pulled the top together from the ground?
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've spent time climbing and talking with Jerry B. The pics that you see are many years old.
If you look in Jerry's book you'll see the best pics of old spike wounds that I've ever seen. Sure they're sealed over, but there is noticable damage.
Back in my "Evil Tom" days I spiked trees. Then I started reading trade mags and attending conferences. I didn't like the names that were heaped on spikers. Sure didn't want to be part of that club. It took a while but I changed my ways. That was the first step in becoming the arborist that I am now.
Tom
If you look in Jerry's book you'll see the best pics of old spike wounds that I've ever seen. Sure they're sealed over, but there is noticable damage.
Back in my "Evil Tom" days I spiked trees. Then I started reading trade mags and attending conferences. I didn't like the names that were heaped on spikers. Sure didn't want to be part of that club. It took a while but I changed my ways. That was the first step in becoming the arborist that I am now.
Tom
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
netree...So what you're saying is....
In this pic, the blue guy is putting less force down onto the limb than is the black guy? Is this a racist thing?
No, seriously though...I pride myself in my ability to be able to look at a scenario and know where the force is going to be. In this comparison, you'd have to do quantum physics to prove that they are putting differet amount of force on the limb.
So what that tells me is that I'm not understanding what you're saying....or that you know quantum physics and I don't!
So please fill me in.
And no, I'm not trying to be a punk. :angel:
love
nick
In this pic, the blue guy is putting less force down onto the limb than is the black guy? Is this a racist thing?
No, seriously though...I pride myself in my ability to be able to look at a scenario and know where the force is going to be. In this comparison, you'd have to do quantum physics to prove that they are putting differet amount of force on the limb.
So what that tells me is that I'm not understanding what you're saying....or that you know quantum physics and I don't!
So please fill me in.
And no, I'm not trying to be a punk. :angel:
love
nick
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
I'm not real schooled on the quantum physics thing, but if the black guy is HUMPING IT up that limb while the blue guy is just standing there flexing, then YES.
The black guy is putting more of a strain on the limb than the blue guy.
Can ya and do ya dig it?
Sometimes you have to have a deft touch, in more ways than one!
The black guy is putting more of a strain on the limb than the blue guy.
Can ya and do ya dig it?
Sometimes you have to have a deft touch, in more ways than one!
NeTree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Actually, I'm saying the GREEN guy is putting less force on the limb*. Before you can get to the top, it has to be able to bear your weight with confidence.
*as you have it pictured. In actuality, the tree was split almost perfectly in half starting about 2' above ground level.
*as you have it pictured. In actuality, the tree was split almost perfectly in half starting about 2' above ground level.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
We need us one of these...
Where iz ya, Ken? :alien:
Where iz ya, Ken? :alien:
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
So then you put the cable here?
If you put the cable where it belongs, that means you have to get up there, which means your weight would be supported by that tree at that spot. But you mentioned that before you got there you have to know, confidentally, that the tree will hold. So it's not an issue of the tree being able to hold. If you magically knew before you headed up that the tree WOULD hold, you should have been able to set your line up there, right?
But again, I wasn't there. I didn't see the limb on the house. I didn't have the second thought of, "Is that tree gonna hold me."
I guess I'm being hard headed about this because I just started climbing trees a few years ago. I never even consider spiking an option. I've heard guys complain, "man, this would be an easy tree if I could just spike it!"
love
nick
ps...What's Butch doing up there with that knife!
If you put the cable where it belongs, that means you have to get up there, which means your weight would be supported by that tree at that spot. But you mentioned that before you got there you have to know, confidentally, that the tree will hold. So it's not an issue of the tree being able to hold. If you magically knew before you headed up that the tree WOULD hold, you should have been able to set your line up there, right?
But again, I wasn't there. I didn't see the limb on the house. I didn't have the second thought of, "Is that tree gonna hold me."
I guess I'm being hard headed about this because I just started climbing trees a few years ago. I never even consider spiking an option. I've heard guys complain, "man, this would be an easy tree if I could just spike it!"
love
nick
ps...What's Butch doing up there with that knife!
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Mebbe a'boot 10, 15 feet higher.
Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
I hit the sometimes catagory because I run into situations that aren't really what I would call trims but more of a semi - removal of a tree. Removal of a large limbs or an entire lead from over a house, garage. wires.
In this case I'll get up the tree without the spurs then have them sent up to me and put them on in the tree and use them on the parts to be removed. I only do this if there is a lot of climbing involved or if the angle is almost vertical like they are in these soft maple trees we have here, where using spurs is faster than trying to advance a line, or trying to get foot and hand holds here and there.
If the poll had defined "trims" meaning just crown thinning and cleaning then I would have hit the never catagory.
I don't hold to Rocky's opinion that you are not a real climber to "get up a tree" if safety is more of a concern, than trying to prove a point by not using spurs. Even though using spurs is a bad practice, if it comes down to me risking injury or the tree suffering from a few spur marks, the tree is going to lose.
I had a three leader Black Loucust this summer that got mangled in a wind storm. The two biggest leads { the best ones ) failed at mid point and was split lengthwise, approx. 5 ft., I could put my fist through these splits. The wind left the smaller weakest lead standing.
Even though this remaining lead was a " living tree " that was not going to be removed and spurs would have been a taboo to use to "get up it", I still spurred it and glad I did . About 3/4s of the way up I found a defect that could have failed if I had been body thrusting or footlocking with my full weight on my chosen TIP, had I been successful in getting a rope through it from the ground.
After spurring up, then down, I had to contend with the split leads . In addition to the bad practice of spurring a live tree, I had to break the rule of being tied in twice while making a chain saw cut. There was no way I was going to be harnessed with a lanyard to these split sections of wood should they have come apart while sawing them.
I only put this up as an example that rules and principals can't all ways be followed when it is a matter of saftety when doing tree work. If a tree has to suffer some type of indignity from the dig of a spur because of a safety concern, better the tree to suffer than me.
In this case I'll get up the tree without the spurs then have them sent up to me and put them on in the tree and use them on the parts to be removed. I only do this if there is a lot of climbing involved or if the angle is almost vertical like they are in these soft maple trees we have here, where using spurs is faster than trying to advance a line, or trying to get foot and hand holds here and there.
If the poll had defined "trims" meaning just crown thinning and cleaning then I would have hit the never catagory.
I don't hold to Rocky's opinion that you are not a real climber to "get up a tree" if safety is more of a concern, than trying to prove a point by not using spurs. Even though using spurs is a bad practice, if it comes down to me risking injury or the tree suffering from a few spur marks, the tree is going to lose.
I had a three leader Black Loucust this summer that got mangled in a wind storm. The two biggest leads { the best ones ) failed at mid point and was split lengthwise, approx. 5 ft., I could put my fist through these splits. The wind left the smaller weakest lead standing.
Even though this remaining lead was a " living tree " that was not going to be removed and spurs would have been a taboo to use to "get up it", I still spurred it and glad I did . About 3/4s of the way up I found a defect that could have failed if I had been body thrusting or footlocking with my full weight on my chosen TIP, had I been successful in getting a rope through it from the ground.
After spurring up, then down, I had to contend with the split leads . In addition to the bad practice of spurring a live tree, I had to break the rule of being tied in twice while making a chain saw cut. There was no way I was going to be harnessed with a lanyard to these split sections of wood should they have come apart while sawing them.
I only put this up as an example that rules and principals can't all ways be followed when it is a matter of saftety when doing tree work. If a tree has to suffer some type of indignity from the dig of a spur because of a safety concern, better the tree to suffer than me.
NeTree
Addicted to ArboristSite
No, actually you start putting the lags there in a 3x2 staggered pattern, using straps to bring the halves of the tree close(er) to gether. Cables come into play later when the tree is back in one piece.
Sheesh... kids!
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not so much concerned about the cable. Just about you, your position in the tree, and the decision to spike or climb.
Please don't we only want here!!!
love
nick
Please don't
we only want here!!!love
nick
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Believe it or not, hooks DO have their place in a non-takedown scenerio.
The professional KNOWS when this scenerio is evident, and responds accordingly.
The professional KNOWS when this scenerio is evident, and responds accordingly.
NeTree
Addicted to ArboristSite
LOL Nick...me? Mad? Never.Originally posted by NickfromWI
I'm not so much concerned about the cable. Just about you, your position in the tree, and the decision to spike or climb.
Please don't
love
nick
BTW, while I said "lags" I was referring to 3/4" x 6' lag *rod*, not lag bolts per se.
The decision to spike or climb was a no-brainer. Far safer for myself and the property to spike it. Lesser of the evils...
...like a 3 acre property losing its' ONLY tree.
Like the new avatar? My groundie just sent it to me... think he's trying to say something?
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes, that is when your coworker is laying unconcious in his/her saddle up in the tree and the FASTEST way for you to get there is with spikes.
Otherwise leave 'em in the truck!
love
nick
Otherwise leave 'em in the truck!
love
nick
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Yes, that is one scenerio.
There are others.
I like the 'his/her' referrence. I've sthil to meet a female climber.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9810
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
I met a couple. Climbed/worked with one. They do exist!
love
nick
love
nick
