POLL: gaffs on trims or not?

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
This shouldn't even need to be discussed. Call me an elitist pig but this poll stinks.

Gee, knowitall, what do you really think? You're a gifted aerialist, but the situations axman and netree talked about, and several I have seen, could not be solved gaffless even by one of your caliber.
Despite the poll numbers, I hear three dogmatists saying they're above ANSI and several more saying it's rare but a reality that parts of some prunes are gaffed. I think that makes them honest and effective, not tree abusers by nature.
Some trees I can get up without gaffs but would bend or crack laterals doing so. Better to put small holes where callus is built up, like at old branch scars or other nodes, than to wound laterals by hanging on them. The smaller infection court is the lesser of two evils.

these are trees where the bs won't get to the top, and choices have to be made. Hooks are an extreme option but sometimes are better for the tree than other options.

 

[okietreedude1]

IMO, spikes should never be worn in trees to be trimmed only. However, I do agree that a certain situation DOES exist. This is the tree covered w/ ice that has to be cut off a house, powerline, etc. immediatly. I think most of us have delt w/ an ice storm and know of this situation. Another would be an arial rescue.

Hardman, as for spiking during line clearance, I have done quite a bit of it and we spike very very little. I started to say none, but when there's a pair in the truck, im sure theyve been used. Watching the ISA video series will tell you they are not recommended around electrical hazards as they are additional sources of conductivity.

Personnaly, I hate spikes. I have an office pair and never wear them. Most of the time they hurt my feet/legs and Ive never been comfortable working the tree with them. Id rather leave a stub to stand on than try to balance on a 3/8" peice of steel. Ive done removals before that I take the dam things off because they get in the way more than they help.

my .02

 

[okietreedude1]

one more thing, if the bs refers to a college degree, I have one and I can get to the top of trees w/o spikes. I do it all the time.

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
...Some trees I can get up without gaffs but would bend or crack laterals doing so. Better to put small holes where callus is built up, like at old branch scars or other nodes, than to wound laterals by hanging on them. The smaller infection court is the lesser of two evils.

these are trees where the bs won't get to the top, and choices have to be made. Hooks are an extreme option but sometimes are better for the tree than other options.

Guy, I respect your opinion a lot. You are very high on the tree hugger scale! (You are more likely under the "fix it" side than the "cut it down" side)

I haven't been to North Cacalakee in about 10 years and I don' t remember what trees look like there. I don't believe there are trees where spike are required. ....except palm trees...and even then, it's not REQUIRED...just faster.

So what does a tree look like that REQUIRES spiking, because I don't think I've seen one. Is it a species specific thing?

This is hard for me to take in. In my head, spikes are for removals. When I'm done cutting trees, I want to be able to look back and say, "I never put spikes on except for some of the take downs, and I never topped a tree."

Might it be the case that it won't happen?

love
nick

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by okietreedude1
one more thing, if the bs refers to a college degree, I have one and I can get to the top of trees w/o spikes. I do it all the time.

BS= Big Shot


Carl

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

.

 

[NeTree]

You'd actually trust that setup Mike? You wouldn't be concerned about destabilizing an already unstable situation?

Rigged that way, your body weight would be taking some pressure off the halves resting points... and risking allowing them to move further along while nothing has been braced yet.

In another situation, that'd be a sweet piece of rigging though.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

It depends. Do you really want a lanyard around both halves of a split tree?
Spiking seems like a difficult option to me, it's easier to hang off a rope.
I've used the option below many times, fast, easy, safe, and no spikes.

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
It depends. Do you really want a lanyard around both halves of a split tree?

Sure. I did mention I was advancing a sling up ahead of me to draw the halves together.

Hanging from a line may be easier, but not necessarily SAFER. Remember, personal safety comes first.

Nice pic Mike, but where are those red lines attached to on the ground?

 

[highpoint-utd]

gaffs on trims

didnt the honoured dr shigo say this was a no-no.
personally never done it and wouldnt itd be like batterin in nails into the cambium imo.

 

[NeTree]

Shigo's career notwithstanding, he isn't the GOD of treework...

Sorry.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

No...put Alex has God's ear

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
No...put Alex has God's ear

But then so do we all.


Erik, thanks for being such a good sport with putting up with all the monday morning QB stuff. Several of our other esteemed members would have had temper tantrums for doubting them.

I've been in situations where to do the task requested would ahve needed spikes, for me. Maybe a Chisholm or Straser could have set something up. I walked away.

When working for Guy he ssaid i did some things that he would ahve needed gaffs to do, then he would shimmy out onto something I would have to have set second line for. I saw many a gaff related canker in those oaks from trims done from huricane Fran.

IMO those who hold to their beliefs show as much integrity as those who admit they are a tool of last resort. When it is your company and you cannot walk away from a customer. Especially when the trees uslefull life is being compromised more by what you are trying to correct, a line of gaff marks.

Lastly to put damper on the myth of thick bark and gaffing, phellogen, or cork cambium extends very far out , is living tissue and is thought to be an avenue of infection after slight wounding.

 

[Eagle1]

Coming in very late to this topic, my opinion is that spikes are for removals only. Otherwise," tree care" is not being practiced. I know tree guys that do not ever use spikes. Just rope and body strenght. Not for me, I need my strenght in the tree.
Spikes on trimming, if I was the homeowner and a "tree service" were gaffing my 100 year old oak to trim dead wood there would be dead wood alright.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Come get some!!!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i say never;

beyond no holds barred emergency(that i am open to but never met),

my notes on exceptions are: MAYBE 1-2x/year looking at taking out some large lead, perhaps damaged, large, clean vertical; me clinging to side like tick as forces leverage around, perhaps rigging down on itself with spikes as best footing. But only is such a strategy as to only affect/use near removal branches, where i really need them.

Cuz i've groan to dislike them, will do removals without them if safe, practice my main skillset of being without them; and work as i am most exercised in as far as safety/familiar environment.

As far as Tom's response about Mr. Beranek's before present state of the art pix; i'll be the first raise my hand and walk to the front of the class and say the pics i have seen him doin that in; is stuff so huge it'd prolly be out of most of my league/range of experience. Also quite fairly in thicker bark he'd use them, that quite possibly kept the damage out of the more tender layers.

i hung up a Beranek poster across from coming out of the door of the john; where he is standing on a spring borad 150' in the air, topping this pine, cuz the root sweel stopped there, so it was only 7' in diameter where he made the topping cut. whenever i thought i was getting good; i'd look at the poster, staging the story of the cuts and fall, hang my head low and go back to work! In time, a few fellas that had been climbing 2 mos.; 6 mos., 2 years etc.; where shown to stand in the same spot, face the same direction.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I've that poster in my hallway!

JB RULES!!!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

There must be some kind of spiking harmonic convergence going on now. There's a spiking thread a Treeb*zz right now. Jerry B. has added his nickel's worth to the conversation in case anyone is interested. While you're over there, look around at some of the othere threads [Can't miss an opportunity to advertise a little ]

Tom

 

[MasterBlaster]

Every time I go there theres never any new posts!

 

[Matt Follett]

Heh, wow, interesting thread to come back too...

Personaly, never spike a pruning job. Besides working down a spar, there has been no situation where I have felt that spikes would have assisted me/increased production. As a climber who learned to climb first without, I have never found them comfortable (either physically or mentally).

Speed wise even for a 'rescue' I know I am faster entering the tree to any height with a ready throwline, bigshot, and footlock. Particularily with the advent of base tied SRT and therefore not requiring an isolated crotch.

Big removals won't see spikes till the very end, as my personal mobilty is hampered by them. And perhaps this goes to illustrate a point, do climbers who learned to climb on spikes resort to them in uncomfortable situ's, while climbers who learned off, resort to losing them when uncomfortable. In the case of the split tree situ, I may have opted along Mike's lines, as this would have in a sense tied the leads together. I feel hindered by their presence, and in case of an 'incident', would want to be free of their bulk and, how do I say, sharp pointy things with the thirst of red meat! ooch!