Pollarding Bradfords

[Ed Roland]

This is a good management option for a sp. predisposed to failure from end weight.

 

[treeclimber101]

Maybe you should nail signs to em that say "TREE SURVIVABILTY TEST IN PROGRESS WE DID THIS WRONG BUT THE RIGHT WAY" maybe then an explanation wouldn't be needed !

 

[ddhlakebound]

"what we are looking at is a topping"

Bite your tongue. :msp_w00t: Says who?

Not according to ANSI A300--reduction cuts made to buds to promote health and structure is proper pruning. Size of cut is key and for that species those are not big cuts.

With all due respect seer, I can't agree in any shape or form. Bradfords absolutely require management, but this work falls squarely into the "topping and hackery" category to me. Please enlighten me, how are these issues ok?

Cuts made from ground level on vertical stems MUST be angled, therefor, seeing the exact location of the bud is far more difficult to identify and make an accurate cut, and the area of wood exposed by the cut is greater than necessary compared to a cut made by a climber or bucket operator.

100% foliage removal.........WHY? Why remove the top half of the tree, then ALL foliage below that?

It seems that the guideline for removal of 1/4 to 1/3 of the foliage went out the window simply because of how high the stick saw could reach, and once that guideline was breached, go ahead and take off every other leaf.

Where does the line in the sand end up when comparing principles to cost effective (but not good) treework?

Yes, I know they're just bradfords. But many people don't......They see a tree that's been hacked up, and a BCMA claiming that this is good and proper tree care, and think to themselves, well if the BCMA says it's good and proper for that tree, then there's nothing wrong with having that done to mine (whatever the species).

Seems to be a pretty slippery slope.

 

[ddhlakebound]

This is a good management option for a sp. predisposed to failure from end weight.

Agree that reduction or properly executed annual pollarding are good management options. The pic of this tree makes me think of re-reduction, not a pollard.

Do not agree if "this" means 50% height reduction and 100% foliage reduction.

I've not seen many bradfords fail in the 12-18 months following a 25-33% reduction, is there a reason to take off more?

 

[formationrx]

I think the property owner should rename the drive along of em too witches fingers alley , I mean they just look horrible and coming from the guy who said I was wrong for being a driveby tree spotter , what do you think 90 percent of the guys who aren't in the ANSI "know" would say ? Looks like edward scissorhands graduated to a chainsaw !

i like chewed up fingernails alley better

 

[Ed Roland]

I've not seen many bradfords fail in the 12-18 months following a 25-33% reduction, is there a reason to take off more?

Is there a reason not to? Goals are defined.

I'm sure Guy took into account specie, health, weather, etc, etc. Cuts are @ or below 4" and I'm sure he will also tell you the placement was @ latent or internal anatomy (endocormic) locations.

If pollarding is an accepted practice in arboriculture, why are these trees poor candidates?

 

[ATH]

....We are not talking about a lot of money; all ground work, powersticksaws....

For the initial work or every year for follow-up work as well? Doesn't seem like that is a good option.

 

[beastmaster]

I see a lot of mulberry and sycamores out here pollarded. These species form a big callus and if cut back to this callus seem to do alright. but its a fine line between pollarding and topping. If no callus is formed there is no line at all.
Even on properly pollarded mulberrys, I try to sell rehabilitation back to a tree shape to customers. Pollarding goes back to the middle ages and wasn't developed to help the tree out. In this day and age I wish it would go away.
I won't comment on those pear trees, because seerer probably has 10 times more tree knowledge then I'll ever have. He must of had a reason. But if I was just driving by with friends and seen them, I'm sure my comments wouldn't be to positive.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Is there a reason not to? Goals are defined.

I'm sure Guy took into account specie, health, weather, etc, etc. Cuts are @ or below 4" and I'm sure he will also tell you the placement was @ latent or internal anatomy (endocormic) locations.

If pollarding is an accepted practice in arboriculture, why are these trees poor candidates?

For the row of four in question, I see no obvious reason to remove more than 1/4-1/3. If there is a legitimate reason for 50% reduction I'm interested in hearing. Otherwise, it's a poorly perceived aestetic choice, and not in any way what's best for the tree.

The same for 100% leaf removal...

And it's not that I have a problem with these trees as pollard candidates. It appears to me that these trees have been reduced twice, about 3-4 years apart, and at different points. That's not how I understand pollarding at all. Or perhaps I misunderstood the pollarding plan, and this reduction is the beginning of the pollarding cycle, and new growth will be cut back to those points annually and the tree will begin forming pollard heads at the latest cuts.

 

[Ed Roland]

For the row of four in question, I see no obvious reason to remove more than 1/4-1/3. If there is a legitimate reason for 50% reduction I'm interested in hearing. Otherwise, it's a poorly perceived aestetic choice, and not in any way what's best for the tree.

The same for 100% leaf removal...

And it's not that I have a problem with these trees as pollard candidates. It appears to me that these trees have been reduced twice, about 3-4 years apart, and at different points. That's not how I understand pollarding at all. Or perhaps I misunderstood the pollarding plan, and this reduction is the beginning of the pollarding cycle, and new growth will be cut back to those points annually and the tree will begin forming pollard heads at the latest cuts.

Doing nothing is bad for a tree with defective attachments. Cabling, propping, bracing, bolting, pruning... all effective remediation. Guy chose to prune. The question here seems to be dose.

I'll let Guy defend the poor execution. :msp_wink:

 

[treeclimber101]

I wouldn't have pear trees that needed pollarding every fall and then be that ugly all winter.


It makes a property look trashy.



Maybe throw a few empty beer cans around to spruce up the landscape.

maybe stick a can on each one of those stubs so they don't get sun scald and they would also serve as a spiffy xmas decoration , the other thing would be a chain hoist and a 460 block would hang real nice there on one of them there trees yesum I reckon !

 

[treeseer]

I'll let Guy defend the poor execution. :msp_wink:

I'll pass--read the first post; i specced; someone else pruned.

"Maybe throw a few empty beer cans around to spruce up the landscape."

That might fit in Georgia; not here...

re the winter look, I agree it's not great. But the owners are fine with it so it's NOMB.

 

[pdqdl]

Yes in too many cases pollards lapse. Owners here have scheduled contractors to return every August (timing minimizes sprouting btw)

I sure would like to know why re-trimming the pollards is desired in August. Granted, that will surely limit the sprouting, but I thought that was the whole purpose of pollarding to the same point every year.

Please educate me. We don't ever get pollarding in Kansas City, so I don't really know much about it.


BTW: We have lots of topping going on, I don't need to know how that works out.

 

[ddhlakebound]

I'll pass--read the first post; i specced; someone else pruned.

re the winter look, I agree it's not great. But the owners are fine with it so it's NOMB.

I'm glad to see that you won't defend the indefensible.

And I'm fairly confident that your specs did not include "Remove top half of trees, remove all leaves, maximize size of exposed wood through angled cuts"

So my questions are:

Why use this example to attempt to further the concept of node trimming when it was poorly executed and not to your specs?

How can you say it's none of your business when your name is associated with these trees, simply because the owners are happy to have mangled trees? Don't you think the sight of these trees could encourage others to mangle their trees too?

 

[mattfr12]

I'm glad to see that you won't defend the indefensible.

And I'm fairly confident that your specs did not include "Remove top half of trees, remove all leaves, maximize size of exposed wood through angled cuts"

So my questions are:

Why use this example to attempt to further the concept of node trimming when it was poorly executed and not to your specs?

How can you say it's none of your business when your name is associated with these trees, simply because the owners are happy to have mangled trees? Don't you think the sight of these trees could encourage others to mangle their trees too?

I like them after deer season you could use it like a deer rack to hang all of your animals. But in all seriousness if someone wanted me to do that i would pass. I wouldn't want my name stamped on some crap like that. looks like what the landscapers around here do with a pole saw and some immigrants that are all in a hurry for lunch.

The guy knows that posting a picture like that is gonna tick people off, he's gotta just be doing it to get a stir out of your guys. No way a real company with legitimate principals is running around doing this stuff. I would love to be the one to bid against you on this job but those trees are a little small for our stuff. What would we take a handsaw? wouldn't know what to do with the cranes.

 

[Pelorus]

Mebbe a large crane could lift those trees out of the ground with root ball intact.
Then carefully invert the trees and plant them upside down.
Properly executed, this could be quite apocalyptic.

 

[treeseer]

Mebbe a large crane could lift those trees out of the ground with root ball intact.
Then carefully invert the trees and plant them upside down.
Properly executed, this could be quite apocalyptic.

or, with vines planted, post-apocalyptic! :msp_scared:

yes most trees look ugly after hard pruning. but they look great in summer. and consider the species; this would not be right on oaks or maples in most cases. and no i'm not trolling for reactions , just drivin by and thought i'd take apic of them. shoulda posted a pic in leaf first.

august pruning doe snot eliminate sprouting, just lessens it. thats all the edjakation i got on this got a ton of pollard pics from europe but it aint standard practice in NC

 

[Pelorus]

got a ton of pollard pics from europe but it aint standard practice in NC

Thank goodness. I'd hate to think your forefathers on the Mayflower imported this practice to the New World.
I think poodles with them weird hair cuts are kinda gross as well. No dignity.

 

[treeseer]

Pollarding is an excellent practice that can extend tree life. Trees like it, which is what matters. :smile2:

 

[wood cutter 1]

well they always say there is life after the knife!