Porta-Wrap troubles....rigging line bound up.

[TreeandLand]

I have a medium porta-wrap. We rigged the top of a pine on Wednesday, and groundman took three wraps on the porty, and then cleated it off on both cleats. He then pulled the top over for me as I cut it. All went fine, but the rigging line cinched up on the cleats, and my groundman couldn't get it loosened up enough to lower the top down. We ended up using a winch to take the tension off the line so he could deal with it. What a headache. This happened to us once before, but he thought it was a fluke.
Where did we go wrong? Should he have taken 5 or 6 wraps? How do we prevent this problem, and what do you guys do in this situation?

 

[DDM]

If your going to put that much shock and weight on it take as many wraps as you can get on it. 3 is definitely not enough. What size line were you using?

 

[pdqdl]

Are you putting a half-hitch on as shown in the instructions? This CAN lead to a "cinched-down, can't loosen situation", but it is very secure.

I suggest doing a figure-8 tie on it, much like tying a boat off to dock cleats. Make several laps around the end bars, forming a figure-8 over the end of the main tube, and THEN put in the half hitch shown in the porta-wrap instructions. What you are doing is isolating the half hitch from the load applied by the log. More wraps=less bind on your tie off.

View attachment 185471

 

[treemandan]

You definatley want to fully wrap the barrell with wraps before locking it off. Wrap it nice and neat all the way to the posts.

 

[TreeandLand]

If your going to put that much shock and weight on it take as many wraps as you can get on it. 3 is definitely not enough. What size line were you using?

We used my 9/16" stable braid line by Yale. It is rated to 15,000lbs average breaking strength, so it should be plenty tough enough to handle a tree top.
Is a 9/16" line harder to work with on a medium porta-wrap than a half inch? It does seem to flatten out more than the 1/2 climbing line we used to use.

 

[boo]

generally the smaller the diameter rigging line= more wraps to get desired friction... also make sure the line is uniform on the porty... make sure you have enough line out behind porty to allow the rope to twist as you lower, otherwise it will hockle/jam-up when it runs through. If "dogging off" needs to be done, looping a few figure 8's on dogs, then a few more regular wraps around porty barrel.

 

[pdqdl]

I have never seen hockling on a portawrap. I think it it because I store my ropes in bags, and they have no twists in them to be concentrated.

That, or none of our trees are tall enough to make it a problem.

 

[boo]

ropes MUST be allowed to twist to follow uniform track on a porty.

 

[tree MDS]

I have never seen hockling on a portawrap. I think it it because I store my ropes in bags, and they have no twists in them to be concentrated.

That, or none of our trees are tall enough to make it a problem.

I gotta be honest and admit that I've yet to figure out the hockling issue I have always had with the 200' 9/16 DB I use. Just never taken the time/usually up in the air, or whatever. I suspect it's more in the type of DB I'm using, rather than the fact that I coil my ropes still - I'm not sure on the name, but it's orange 9/16 new england rope. I think it's the more natural crotch friendly type (the reason I never switched). My 3/4" DB is the other kind, that thing never twists like that, and I coil it. That's why I think it's in the rope.

I have a medium sized porty that I rarely use. I have noticed the 9/16 doesn't seem to run as smooth through it as in the bigger one... I figure that's due to the hockling and the smaller bend radious.. or maybe just it's because 9/16 is the max for the mid sized porty. Probably a combination of factors. Running the line out definitely helps.

I take wraps just like boo said to lock it off, seems like common sense.

 

[pdqdl]

I think if a fellow rigged his P-O-W to a telephone pole, then used a small truck to pull his bull rope through it from one end to the other, that would be the end of any hockling. The smooth continuous stretch should milk out any loose spots or twists in the double braid.

You would probably need to cut off the slack/mismatch of the inner and outer core when you got to the end.

 

[boo]

even if you had the rope stretched out all the way down the road, used it over a hundred times, it would STILL have to twist to keep from hockling in the porty.... no matter what rope you use.
coiled or uncoiled, bagged or boxed, it MUST twist as it moves through the porty.

 

[tree MDS]

I think if a fellow rigged his P-O-W to a telephone pole, then used a small truck to pull his bull rope through it from one end to the other, that would be the end of any hockling. The smooth continuous stretch should milk out any loose spots or twists in the double braid.

You would probably need to cut off the slack/mismatch of the inner and outer core when you got to the end.

Interesting thought. You would probably want to run the tail out in a straight line prior to pulling too, to achieve maximum un-hockle (lol). Maybe I'll try that sometime and let you know if it works... till then I'll just keep #####ing at those ####ing little curly cues, like I've been doing for years now.

 

[tree MDS]

even if you had the rope stretched out all the way down the road, used it over a hundred times, it would STILL have to twist to keep from hockling in the porty.... no matter what rope you use.
coiled or uncoiled, bagged or boxed, it MUST twist as it moves through the porty.

I think someone mentioned something about switching ends at one point too. That might be the key. Maybe use different colored electrical tape on each end, so you can try and remember to switch it up between takedowns. Just thinking here.

 

[boo]

I think someone mentioned something about switching ends at one point too. That might be the key. Maybe use different colored electrical tape on each end, so you can try and remember to switch it up between takedowns. Just thinking here.

even if you had the rope stretched out all the way down the road, used it over a hundred times, it would STILL have to twist to keep from hockling in the porty.... no matter what rope you use.
coiled or uncoiled, bagged or boxed, it MUST twist as it moves through the porty.

new rope or old rope... doesn't matter.
switching ends on every piece seems like it would prevent the "curly cues" from jamming up the porty... horrible to have to unjam a loaded porty.

 

[pdqdl]

even if you had the rope stretched out all the way down the road, used it over a hundred times, it would STILL have to twist to keep from hockling in the porty.... no matter what rope you use.
coiled or uncoiled, bagged or boxed, it MUST twist as it moves through the porty.

Nonsense.

Put three wraps on a POW, and you have added 3 twists. After that, there are no twists added by sliding the rope down the pipe. Just do it in slow motion on a clean straight rope and you will see that I am right.

When the POW is unwrapped, the twists come back out, unless it was pulled through to the end; which would still be expected to pull out the twists.

I'd like to see somebody post a closeup video of a port-a-wrap hockling. I'll bet all the problems would be revealed.

 

[pdqdl]

Interesting thought. You would probably want to run the tail out in a straight line prior to pulling too, to achieve maximum un-hockle (lol)....

Yes! Thanks for the help. Stretching the rope out straight definitely would help.

Hockling can be caused two ways:

1. Concentrating the slack difference between the outer and inner parts of a double-braid rope. This comes usually as slack outer braid getting fat and lumpy on the straight inner braid. Curiously, this is usually caused by more tension being applied to the outer braid, thereby making it longer. Excess slack will cause this problem. Milking out the slack should prevent it.

2. Concentrating the twists present in a rope. Tree workers have almost abandoned traditional twist rope because it ALWAYS hockles. Single and double braid ropes do not contain any "built-in" twisting to the whole rope (internal twisting is cancelled by the opposite braid direction), so if your braid rope is hockling, take out the twists!

 

[treemandan]

Yeah! That is why the guy on the porty keeps the ropes neat, runs the rope off the end posts and stands back far enough to only allow un-hockled rope to run through it. Standing back far enough gives the rope " room" to move the way it is going to move.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Yeah, somebody is going to have to react... properly. Its just knowing the equipment and knowing what to do.


If you run a porty up close and not do run the rope off the posts Lord help ya.

 

[treemandan]

Yes! Thanks for the help. Stretching the rope out straight definitely would help.

Hockling can be caused two ways:

1. Concentrating the slack difference between the outer and inner parts of a double-braid rope. This comes usually as slack outer braid getting fat and lumpy on the straight inner braid. Curiously, this is usually caused by more tension being applied to the outer braid, thereby making it longer. Excess slack will cause this problem. Milking out the slack should prevent it.

2. Concentrating the twists present in a rope. Tree workers have almost abandoned traditional twist rope because it ALWAYS hockles. Single and double braid ropes do not contain any "built-in" twisting to the whole rope (internal twisting is cancelled by the opposite braid direction), so if your braid rope is hockling, take out the twists!

I honestly do not know how they did it with twisted mannila all those years. I remember I used to have a 3strand lanyard... I think that is why I quit til they made better ropes.

 

[boo]

Nonsense.

Put three wraps on a POW, and you have added 3 twists. After that, there are no twists added by sliding the rope down the pipe. Just do it in slow motion on a clean straight rope and you will see that I am right.

When the POW is unwrapped, the twists come back out, unless it was pulled through to the end; which would still be expected to pull out the twists.

I'd like to see somebody post a closeup video of a port-a-wrap hockling. I'll bet all the problems would be revealed.

okay just went outside to the bucket truck and grabbed the porty, sling/block, and dbraid 3/4" @200'
Yes, if you take out the twists at the end of the rope that you have put into the rope by wrapping on the drum, it does not hockle.... unless the load twists.
BUT, unless you have 2 ropes, tagline, or a perfect load that does not twist on the way down... you will have to adjust for the twist that accurs by the load.

 

[pdqdl]

Um...Yep. That would sure put the twists back in it for the next log that comes down.

I never thought of that, 'cause it is on the load side of the POW. You guys that work down south in the really big trees are probably making longer drops, more spin time, and more twists in the rope. We don't get too many logs that spin in place, and I apparently never noticed the consequences.

I think log-spinning on the way down is probably the main source of hockling. I regret to say that I didn't think of that, but thanks none-the-less. :msp_thumbup: