powerlines

[ropensaddle]

AHHH! Nit-picker! I knew you would be weighing in on this thread before too long. Welcome to the thread.

All of the amps that get delivered still are going through the insulated hot wires to the end user. I wasn't trying to say that the service lines and secondaries are not dangerous, I was trying to point out the error of considering an insulated wire to be "non-electrical", as suggested in one of the previous posts. Around here, it is pretty common to have insulated wires running pole-to-pole in 2-3 single strands, rather than as a twisted single line.

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What do the regulations say about private contractors with adequate experience (like yourself), who are not working for a utility or other "approved" contractor? Is that a self-regulating sort of thing, or can the utility company come by and tell you to get out of the work zone?

I imagine everybody leaves it alone until disaster strikes, then the government comes in handing out fines.

More than once I have seen cable tv or telephone wires carrying 7200 volt momentarily as well as guy wires anything connected to a power pole can have enough current to kill you at any moment. IE your having a complacent day a field and brush the overhead telephone wire at the same moment a drunk two miles away t-bones a pole on the same circuit and causes the primary to contact the phone line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS: I have taken trees down near lines in my private business but only if the power company has refused the customer. All the utility men know my work capabilities so I have no problem with the you can't do that syndrome.

 

[pdqdl]

I had to wait 3 months for KCP&L to take the top out of a beautiful locust tree last year. It was arching gracefully over the primaries in the back yard.

We kept calling them, two weeks later they would tell us that there was nothing wrong with the tree, and they weren't worried about it. We kept telling them the property owner was removing the tree, and they were required to do the trimming over the primaries.

THEN...they seemed to keep developing "scheduling problems". They eventually bucked up and did the work.

 

[ropensaddle]

Never had an experience with electricity and tree work myself but have seen a few incidents. The service drops to the house are about 240 volts and rated for about 100 amps or whatever the fuse box - that is plenty to kill you. The guy I was working with had a handsaw and fiberglass ladder hacking into a cedar hedge and POP! - so loud a neighbor 6 houses down asked if everything was OK. There was a puff of smoke and he was frozen for a second. He said he didn't get a shock but the handsaw was cooked - burnt steel and parts of the wooden handle were smoked. I think it might have even been a bit wet or in the morning? I think he got zapped myself.

Another job with a willow tree about 25 feet away at the base from a single primary running down the street and a 1/4 inch branch 4 feet long - a twig - falling from about 20 feet broke it. Thing is we didn't even know until the homeowners started showing up, the whole street was out. It broke at the pole and it was obvious why after looking at it, the whole attachment was falling apart and rusted out. We watched the hydro guys fix it in about 10 minutes.

I've also seen a tree grown right into a live house drop with burn marks everywhere.

I've only done line clearance a few times but yeah, you should be wearing lineman's gloves and following the limits - they are pasted on every truck that works around lines as far as I know. The secondary and primary lines that usually run along the backyard property lines in suburbia are the ones you just won't get a second chance with if you make good contact!

Maybe ropensaddle knows the correct terms. Also, weather stripping is often mistaken for insulation, you can see it peeling off.

It can take as little as 1/10th of one amp in 12 volt dc to kill a human. Minimum separation is the term your thinking of, or minimum approach it defines how close qualified personal can be to varying voltage without protective measures such as blankets and cover up materials in place.

 

[RacerX]

Never had an experience with electricity and tree work myself but have seen a few incidents. The service drops to the house are about 240 volts and rated for about 100 amps or whatever the fuse box - that is plenty to kill you.

Actually there is no protection on the pole side of the drop other than the primary protection for the transformer. The potential fault current is many times greater than 100 amps.

 

[Bermie]

Like this thread, some good stuff!

I don't mess around, inside 10'...call the power company. I've had to wait 2 months to get to one job and its only going to take about an hour to do the worst bit...but the power has to be turned off, 25 houses will be out...in a wealthy neighborhood, takes three weeks to do all the notifications by mail...

Better safe than sorry, my liability insurance doesn't cover electrical mishaps!!

 

[Rftreeman]

It is against law for non Qualified personal to get within ten foot of any overhead energized conductors. I am qualified after supervising and performing line clearance many years.

Me too, do you ever get people in the business and know you are cert asking you to clear out power lines for them..

 

[mattfr12]

Yep, that's probably safe alright.

But the fact that you have to ask means that you are both untraind and unqualified to work near powerlines. Don't worry about it, I'm not trained or qualified either.

When I am near high voltage, I call the power company. I have lost a number of jobs in the last couple of years because the silly bastards won't come do the work they say they will, either. Oh well! I'm not dead yet, either.

When I am near 240 or less (running from the pole to the house), I don't worry about the electricity, I worry about pulling the box off the house.

A few years ago I was in my fiberglass bucket truck, violating the 10' rule, thinking I was safe. After all, those are just low voltage, insulated lines, right? That single little uninsulated top wire only 15" above the insulated wires must be a ground wire or something, because high voltage always comes down the line in 3 wires right?

Nope, not at all! When I accidentally swept a little green switch across that top wire, I felt a prominent tingle from the electricity. I was clearly electrified for 1/2 second, and it might have been fatal to me, or possibly someone touching the truck.

It turns out that it was a single phase primary serving the neighborhood, and probably had 7,000 volts on it, directly connected to my hand with a green stick of elm tree.

Ooops. Won't do that again! Let the guys trained for that work do the branches in the wires.

Yes! Change your ways, before you start logging in at the fifth forum, instead of the first one. Read all about it here: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=133775

asking questions is a good thing if you know the answer or not. can keep you from getting killed? thiers an old saying better safe than sorry. i like to live by that.

i have completed courses held by Ducane light And Alleghny Power our local compaines.

but my friend being fried by 13000 volts a few days ago kinda got me thinking.

 

[treeclimber101]

I think for asplunger's great hourly rate it seems to just be good sense to have them take care of all work to the bells , the only problem seems to be scheduling, they say monday show up sunday then you have the HO in your arse saying there is 1/2 tree laying in front of the house or the other side there three days late , ya never know .....

 

[treeclimber101]

Transmission lines are those that usually are explained as carrying minimum 134 kv and run ungrounded from generation or nuclear to feed sub station. These wires have minimum separations greater than any overhead conductors. I was working on 500 kv lines with fifteen foot minimum separation these lines can arc and turn you into a human spark plug:monkey:
Sometimes 69 kv running from one sub to another are referred to as transmission too

Yea 69 wires are also transmission even if they follow the poles through the neighborhood , its funny that you mention them , My buddy was running a hydro axe mower and came in contact with them , the machine was an entire loss and he was fine never touched felt a little tingle but thats it

 

[PaulPollard]

That's interesting RacerX and yeah, like someone else mentioned lines, cables and trees can be energized when they are not supposed to be. Along with the primaries and secondaries is usually the telco. and cable service lines in about the biggest bundle and lowest on the line. They are not supposed to be energized other than the 50v or whatever the phone companies are running, plus all of the power supplies being installed for backup...there is a lot of stuff going on in places no doubt, plenty of room for things to start finding the path of least resistance!

 

[treeclimber101]

That's interesting RacerX and yeah, like someone else mentioned lines, cables and trees can be energized when they are not supposed to be. Along with the primaries and secondaries is usually the telco. and cable service lines in about the biggest bundle and lowest on the line. They are not supposed to be energized other than the 50v or whatever the phone companies are running, plus all of the power supplies being installed for backup...there is a lot of stuff going on in places no doubt, plenty of room for things to start finding the path of least resistance!

Telephone bundles can carry enough juice to make you pizz your undies and make your heart skip a few beats...

 

[Rftreeman]

Telephone bundles can carry enough juice to make you pizz your undies and make your heart skip a few beats and/or kill you...

fixed it for ya.......

 

[treeclimber101]

fixed it for ya.......

Yea if your a pansy

 

[Rftreeman]

Yea if your a pansy

so are you admitting that you're a pansy.......:check:

 

[ropensaddle]

Yea 69 wires are also transmission even if they follow the poles through the neighborhood , its funny that you mention them , My buddy was running a hydro axe mower and came in contact with them , the machine was an entire loss and he was fine never touched felt a little tingle but thats it

I knew a guy that got hit by 69 direct and lived but he had two silver dollar holes out both feet. We called him sparky

 

[treemandan]

I recently did this one. I did climb over the wires and drop a few in the street but most was lowered over towards the left. Its been skinned up pretty much in the pics, there were some that got pretty close to the transformer.

 

[treemandan]

Though I rarely work around wires I did this one because it looked OK and it still was a big chance I took.
There was one limb that when lowered barely cleared the transformer. I had the groundies lock the porty until the limb stopped swinging so they wouldn't be touching the rope if the limb made contact. I had 2 ropes on this particular limb so there were 2 porties.
Everything else came out quick and the tree was pretty easy. I kept my top rope in a position where if I slipped I would be pulled away from the wires. In all honesty I probably did stay at least 10 feet away from the wires the whole time myself but some of the limbs didn't.
Coming into contact is scary enough but also if you bring a wire down the people on the ground are in danger. That might mean not just the crew but anyone around.

 

[ropensaddle]

Though I rarely work around wires I did this one because it looked OK and it still was a big chance I took.
There was one limb that when lowered barely cleared the transformer. I had the groundies lock the porty until the limb stopped swinging so they wouldn't be touching the rope if the limb made contact. I had 2 ropes on this particular limb so there were 2 porties.
Everything else came out quick and the tree was pretty easy. I kept my top rope in a position where if I slipped I would be pulled away from the wires. In all honesty I probably did stay at least 10 feet away from the wires the whole time myself but some of the limbs didn't.
Coming into contact is scary enough but also if you bring a wire down the people on the ground are in danger. That might mean not just the crew but anyone around.

You did well, that tree appeared to have overhang it is definitely not real easy especially with little or no clearance training if that's the case. You may want to have them clear the next one but looks like you did a good job

 

[Jumper]

There is a lot of public service announcements going on here extolling 7 metres (yards) as being the safe distance from power lines.

www.wherestheline.ca

 

[mattfr12]

I recently did this one. I did climb over the wires and drop a few in the street but most was lowered over towards the left. Its been skinned up pretty much in the pics, there were some that got pretty close to the transformer.

nice work on the tree any other day i wouldnt blink at working around the lines but the guy i know getting electricuted really bugged me. just made me think about how close i been getting to them.

i really like the upper class comunity that have all the electricity under ground. a town in pa called sewickly most if not all power even to the houses is under ground.