powerlines

[ropensaddle]

No more cutting will be done. Not sure what you mean by jumpcuts? There are some trees and a very nice yard. I can talk to the homeowner about working over there. I'll take the pic of the lines hitting the poles to can give tomorrow. Thanks for any help you can give me.

Scott

Yes that will help to know if that is a primary zoom into top of pole. If its a nice yard jump cuts may be out of the question but they are snap cuts made to clear lines and drop the limbs on the opposite side of tree past or over lines. It really does not look like that would be my plan but never hurts to know all options. Definitely going to need my pole saw,pulleys,block, several ropes, spurs,saddle etc. In your pics it seems the lower limbs were burning or near burning but may be illusion once that is cleared it will go faster.

 

[STLfirewood]

Yes that will help to know if that is a primary zoom into top of pole. If its a nice yard jump cuts may be out of the question but they are snap cuts made to clear lines and drop the limbs on the opposite side of tree past or over lines. It really does not look like that would be my plan but never hurts to know all options. Definitely going to need my pole saw,pulleys,block, several ropes, spurs,saddle etc. In your pics it seems the lower limbs were burning or near burning but may be illusion once that is cleared it will go faster.

I'll get those pictures tomorrow. Again thanks for all your help. I'll bring some ropes and things I have just in case you need them. All saws will have new chains so you don't have to worry about them being ready. I want to make this as easy for you as I can so let me know everything you need.

Thanks again
Scott

 

[ropensaddle]

Lmfao bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt I like the old copper ones even better lmfao


PS: did I tell ya I see a nova in your future like tomorrow lol

told ya I would give you a nova lol

 

[ropensaddle]

I'll get those pictures tomorrow. Again thanks for all your help. I'll bring some ropes and things I have just in case you need them. All saws will have new chains so you don't have to worry about them being ready. I want to make this as easy for you as I can so let me know everything you need.

Thanks again
Scott

make it two lol

 

[ropensaddle]

Matt, read ANSI, non-certified trimmers shouldnt even be around powerlines!! ehap is fine but no substitute for LCTT training through a JATC/ bargaining unit!!

whatever you do.....be careful & stay safe!


LXT..................

three lmfao

 

[ropensaddle]

I got bit on the butt a couple of times, thought I'd found a hornets nest, makes it taste like you got a nickle in your mouth....

fourth nova

 

[vaclimber]

Need you say more?!?

Here's my thoughts, watch this (WARNING, IT'S GRAPHIC)


That could be your someday............

WOW! That really drives it home as far as the potential outcome when working around electricity. I was trained "old school," as in whatever it takes to get the check yesterday, and have been in situations no one should be in. I'm blessed to have not been electrified and am a better climber/rigger from the experience.Nowadays, I don't have to or want to test fate, so i deal with electricity accordingly(safely) with as little chance as possible.

 

[murphy4trees]

to answer the original poster:
I heard in and ehap trainig that unless you are certified to work around power lines, you need to stay 10' away from any line... ANY LINE.. that means phone, cable, and guy lines.. Those are the rules.. the only problem is if you really paid attention to them, you often wouldn't be able to drive down the driveway or walk through the backyard...

So technically we aren;t supposed to drop phone and cable lines from the house, or use a polesaw to lift a low phone line to get a tall truck under it, or cut any branch or tree that is or could get within 10' of any line..

 

[mattfr12]

to answer the original poster:
I heard in and ehap trainig that unless you are certified to work around power lines, you need to stay 10' away from any line... ANY LINE.. that means phone, cable, and guy lines.. Those are the rules.. the only problem is if you really paid attention to them, you often wouldn't be able to drive down the driveway or walk through the backyard...

So technically we aren;t supposed to drop phone and cable lines from the house, or use a polesaw to lift a low phone line to get a tall truck under it, or cut any branch or tree that is or could get within 10' of any line..

thanks for the reply this is the same answer i got from the local power companies.

but my main reason for this post was a local guy died from electricity in a tree. 2 weeks ago.

and i do line clearance for a local telephone company a month or 2 out of every year. phone lines run close to electric lines on the poles.

the power companies are aware that we do this work and are allowed to go past the 10 feet mark. to clear phone lines. the work is sub-contracted to us. my job when doing this is to get the tree 10 feet from the lines.

i am just trying to make sure what im doing is safe enough or is thier anything that you guys know that could make my job safer that i dont know.

i use fiber glass pole saw wear 17,000 volt rated gloves. the lines that we work around are 12,000 volt 3 phase . my ground workers wear the protective boot covers so if they touch the truck it keeps them from grounding. and im also in a fiber glass boom. we follow and use the same saftey equipment the power companies use when working around lines. and we are expected to follow the same guidlines. i even #### can my gloves every 5 months and buy a new 100 pair.

after his death it just made me think? to me when it comes to saftey money is no option a 1700.00 fiber glass saw or 100.00 pair of gloves to keep me from getting fried is money well spent. if it keeps me or my crew from getting hurt.

 

[ropensaddle]

thanks for the reply this is the same answer i got from the local power companies.

but my main reason for this post was a local guy died from electricity in a tree. 2 weeks ago.

and i do line clearance for a local telephone company a month or 2 out of every year. phone lines run close to electric lines on the poles.

the power companies are aware that we do this work and are allowed to go past the 10 feet mark. to clear phone lines. the work is sub-contracted to us. my job when doing this is to get the tree 10 feet from the lines.

i am just trying to make sure what im doing is safe enough or is thier anything that you guys know that could make my job safer that i dont know.

i use fiber glass pole saw wear 17,000 volt rated gloves. the lines that we work around are 12,000 volt 3 phase . my ground workers wear the protective boot covers so if they touch the truck it keeps them from grounding. and im also in a fiber glass boom. we follow and use the same saftey equipment the power companies use when working around lines. and we are expected to follow the same guidlines. i even #### can my gloves every 5 months and buy a new 100 pair.

after his death it just made me think? to me when it comes to saftey money is no option a 1700.00 fiber glass saw or 100.00 pair of gloves to keep me from getting fried is money well spent. if it keeps me or my crew from getting hurt.

I if you, would get the certified utility arborist study guide. If your working in close proximity to lines the info would be invaluable. However; Murphy made a mis-post, as the word is qualified, not certified. Qualified means ;you have enough practical experience and training working near energized conductors to be proficient in reasonably safe practice.This usually means; your in the practice by profession and have ongoing training and sufficient knowledge for its safe operations. For me 21 years qualifies me but as far as I know I have no certifications other than many safety awards.

 

[murphy4trees]

I'd be a careful with that kind of thinking.. you don't have to ground electricity for it to kill you.. Its tricky stuff and can get you a lot of different ways..

 

[ropensaddle]

I'd be a careful with that kind of thinking.. you don't have to ground electricity for it to kill you.. Its tricky stuff and can get you a lot of different ways..

You got that right you can even get it from an isolated circuit or even wire not connected to any power source period. Induction is weird stuff!

 

[pdqdl]

Back in 1982 I met a marvelous retired electrician, whose name was Bill S. He taught me a whole lot of neat things, and had been a very creative and versatile person.

One of his stories, pertinant to your comment on induction:

When rural electrification came through in the Depression, his parents were essentially run down by the utility company, who forced them to allow the power lines to transit across their property with no compensation at all! Furthermore, they didn't offer to sell them electricity at a reduced rate, either. Naturally, they didn't like that deal at all.

They strung a single strand of wire for about 1/4 mile, immediately parallel to the high voltage power line. Apparently, the poles were not very tall in those days. With that single wire, hanging close to the primary, they picked up enough induced current to run their farm for many years, all for free.

If they got too many appliances going, like the well pump and the clothes washer, they had rigged their wire so that it could be tensioned a bit more for higher current by being closer to the wire, and lower tension when they didn't need as much current. They hooked a light bulb up close to the rope that pulled the wire tight, and watched it carefully for how bright it got.

The power utility was obviously not liking that plan, but they kept loosing the lawsuits, as the judges decided that the property owners were just catching the electricity that the primary wires were throwing away!

He told me that eventually they got it banned in court by declaring that it was too hazardous, that there was no way of stopping the delivered voltage. Bill S. agreed that this was true, and that the utility eventually raised the poles too high to steal current from anyway.

Although I had understood induction prior to that tale, it clearly showed me the real-world risk from induced current in parallel wires, and has helped me understand many other different situations.

You should hear some of his other stories...

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Tell another one, pd. opcorn:

 

[pdqdl]

He told me a story about being asked to hand-deliver an envelope full of money from a source that I can't remember, to a local politician that later became president.

This of course, was long before Harry made it to the big time. He was under the impression at the time that it was a bribe or payoff of some sort, he just didn't know enough details to do any damage. The best I can recall was that it was from some big depression contractor.

I wish I could remember more of the details. Ol' Bill S. sure didn't think much of Harry S., nor his presidential legacy.

Then there is the story about how Bill once tried to bottle acetylene. You may not know this, but a long time ago acetylene didn't come in yellow metal bottles...

 

[Bigus Termitius]

He told me a story about being asked to hand-deliver an envelope full of money from a source that I can't remember, to a local politician that later became president.

This of course, was long before Harry made it to the big time. He was under the impression at the time that it was a bribe or payoff of some sort, he just didn't know enough details to do any damage. The best I can recall was that it was from some big depression contractor.

I wish I could remember more of the details. Ol' Bill S. sure didn't think much of Harry S., nor his presidential legacy.

Then there is the story about how Bill once tried to bottle acetylene. You may not know this, but a long time ago acetylene didn't come in yellow metal bottles...

I'm a big fan of old people. I love to get them talking, and sit back and learn. Especially old farmers, I see them on the job all the time.

 

[Bermie]

Did my line clearance job on Thursday...just watching the BELCO guys make the lines safe was an education, foreman on site was in contact with the engineer at the station, span got shut down, then the linesmen came through and grounded all the poles.
I thought all they had to do was shut off the current, but what I didn't know was that the home generators that the people have can feed back into the wires and still be a problem...!
This is why I won't risk anything near the power, its worth the wait to have it done properly...now if they'd just leave the tree trimming to the pros!!!

I got this job because the trees were in a nature reserve and the Trust didn't want them hacked. A couple of times my back nearly brushed the lines while up in the bucket, still gave me the jimineys even knowing the juice was off!!!

Reading your post about induced current pdql just gave me another perspective...very interesting thread guys.

 

[ropensaddle]

Did my line clearance job on Thursday...just watching the BELCO guys make the lines safe was an education, foreman on site was in contact with the engineer at the station, span got shut down, then the linesmen came through and grounded all the poles.
I thought all they had to do was shut off the current, but what I didn't know was that the home generators that the people have can feed back into the wires and still be a problem...!
This is why I won't risk anything near the power, its worth the wait to have it done properly...now if they'd just leave the tree trimming to the pros!!!

I got this job because the trees were in a nature reserve and the Trust didn't want them hacked. A couple of times my back nearly brushed the lines while up in the bucket, still gave me the jimineys even knowing the juice was off!!!

Reading your post about induced current pdql just gave me another perspective...very interesting thread guys.

Bermie many times the lines men call it grounded and it is not properly isolated. They will run a jumper from phase to ground neutral or ground pigtail on transformer"can" to neutral.
That is not enough it should be also jumped all the way to ground on both sides of work to properly isolate a work zone but I have yet to see them do it on their own until I make them.

 

[Bermie]

Bermie many times the lines men call it grounded and it is not properly isolated. They will run a jumper from phase to ground neutral or ground pigtail on transformer"can" to neutral.
That is not enough it should be also jumped all the way to ground on both sides of work to properly isolate a work zone but I have yet to see them do it on their own until I make them.

Not being an expert, but that sounds like what they did, they double checked my work area and were doing something at either end as well as the poles before they let me start...

It really made me think about getting better educated about electricity, really, there are so many variables that I cringe to think of the work I have done a bit close to power. Also I'd have a better idea of safety, potentially I am banking my life on BELCO doing the right thing, I'm sure they do, they are the electricity experts, not me...but still it would be sensible to understand it better, risk assessment, time issues, all adds onto the bid price too.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

[...now if they'd just leave the tree trimming to the pros!!!

LOL!! FACT.

The stuff I've come across from the prior trimming cycles can really be aggrivating, but in their defense, the power companies do push for quantity more than quality.

With a vermeer 1400xl at my disposal, we push for removals, especially along a timber line. Landowners see the before and after. And it looks mostly as if I wasn't even there, for the trees I did just trim are good, and the ones that would have been left looking funky are mulch or firewood.

That generator backfeed is more than you might think. The transformer works two ways and amplifies it going back down the line. It's amazing how many people hook them up wrong and cause this situation during storms. There ought to be a felony law.