proper pruning 75' tulip

[Metals406]

I see stubs:rant:

Beats seeing dead people. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[ropensaddle]

Good info fellas! Nothing wrong with different opinions, especially when they're based on personal experience.

It's my understanding (and I could be misinformed), that the closer you get to the collar with your cut, the harder it is on the tree (talking big limbs here).

The reason I asked about wound sealing, is that by their own design, trees send resin, pitch, sap, to the area and attempt to seal it.

If you seal the wound for the tree immediately, I would think you would discourage insects, and rot from different fungi and other attacking agents.

It's an interesting concept that trimming to the collar is effectively dooming a tree to an earlier than natural death. . . But it would also limit the type of trimming one could offer a customer. I can see many customers not liking a 3' stob being left on the tree, and others that perhaps wouldn't care.

Speaking of Daniel's earlier post on tree trimming ethics, if you made the customer aware that trimming to near the collar could be a detriment to the tree, and they made the decision to do it anyway. . . Does one do it, or stick by your guns and refuse (thusly loosing the job)? Or do you make them sign a waiver that you're not responsible for the health of the tree after the trimming, based on their decision? That would certainly protect you from liability if they called up 5 years later all pissed-off that their tree broke at a leader crotch due to rot induced at a trimming point.

So, the further from the trunk you trim, the better the chances the tree has to compartmentalize.

Is there an acceptable ratio on a large crown reduction, for trims near the collar to branch tip trimming?

Just by reading a lot of the threads started in the tree climbing/trimming section, I can tell that you guys are very prideful of what you do, and the techniques/equipment you operate with. There's always room to learn something new though.

Some species compartmentalize others like poplar attempt to out grow their wounds its my belief these such trees could be better handled as a pollard but starting at a juvenile. After reaching maturity, I prefer reduction without stobs or selective limbs taken back to parent branch. The stability on most of the fast growers is not at their base imo its in their canopy. It boils down to site vrs species to me and many trees are where they should never have been planted. I feel the biggest contribution arborist could make is in new plantings and selection but then its just my opinion and experience in our numerous tornados.

 

[Metals406]

Some species compartmentalize others like poplar attempt to out grow their wounds its my belief these such trees could be better handled as a pollard but starting at a juvenile. After reaching maturity, I prefer reduction without stobs or selective limbs taken back to parent branch. The stability on most of the fast growers is not at their base imo its in their canopy. It boils down to site vrs species to me and many trees are where they should never have been planted. I feel the biggest contribution arborist could make is in new plantings and selection but then its just my opinion and experience in our numerous tornados.

Okay, so that makes a lot of sense. Some trees handle large limb removal better than others. What are you thoughts on this rot thing Rope? Have you went back to a tree where you cut some bigger limbs back to the collar, and the center of the collar showed signs of rot?

What are your thoughts on the three-step trim, over three seasons? Makes a lot of sense that it would give the tree more time to compartmentalize that particular limb.

 

[thepheniox]

I'll take a picture of a honey locust up the street tomorrow. It had two large limbs removed years ago. Both are almost completely compartmentalized showing absolutely no rot. If you remove a tree that has old wounds slice the truck in half and see for your self how the compartmentalization is working. This is how you can find out for yourself what trees can handle cuts better than others. By no means am I saying large cuts should be made. Minimal pruning is deffinately the way to go. However sometimes you can get away with it if you have to do it.

 

[ropensaddle]

Okay, so that makes a lot of sense. Some trees handle large limb removal better than others. What are you thoughts on this rot thing Rope? Have you went back to a tree where you cut some bigger limbs back to the collar, and the center of the collar showed signs of rot?

What are your thoughts on the three-step trim, over three seasons? Makes a lot of sense that it would give the tree more time to compartmentalize that particular limb.

The first concern is and should always be is species characteristics. The problem pertaining to poplar is going to be weak compartmentalization and rapid growth to any stress other than drought so imo anything done needs consideration of where the regenerative growth will be channeled. I am a fan of reduction in many cases and other than the obvious stobs, he did a fine job. My thinking and I may be in error is that if this tree was pollarded at youth then reduced back to the pods that inevitably form, it would reduce its normal tendency to to head for the stratosphere and over time could be made to be decent yard tree. In its native form however; I would feel its not an ideal choice in a landscape unless the landscape has a scale large enough to place it away from the home. Again its my opinion, others likely differ.

As far as rot from large cuts, the majority of trees I deal with are cut way back and as the grindings rot become a biologically better environment for new plantings

However; I trimmed many trees for powerline maintenance on five year intervals these cuts had lack of any fruiting bodies or conks and some actually hid the wound with callus. Before getting the wrong idea, others died and were removed, there is no one idea suitable for every site, species etc. Some of the more eye opening moments of our industry were from outside the box. However the full knowledge of the contents inside the box makes for a better informed and effective arborist.

 

[treeseer]

Please explain . If it is Rick and the job involves pruning, I'll recommend strongly against that.. if it is a company that does good work, I'll be honest about that too and assure her that I think they'll do a nice job and that is a good price etc..

well okay come to think of it I do the same
But I try to leave the malpruners room to grow too

Re collars at branch origins being the only or always the best places for compartmentalization...

That is unfortunate misinformation
Dogma with no scientific basis
The same BPZ is present at other nodes

 

[Metals406]

well okay come to think of it I do the same
But I try to leave the malpruners room to grow too

Re collars at branch origins being the only or always the best places for compartmentalization...

That is unfortunate misinformation
Dogma with no scientific basis
The same BPZ is present at other nodes

Then it would boil down to pure aesthetics and personal preference then, no?

 

[thepheniox]

Heres a few photos of an ash that has compartmentalized some larger cuts just fine. The photo that is not fully healed over shows no sign of rot what so ever.

 

[NCTREE]

Heres a few photos of an ash that has compartmentalized some larger cuts just fine. The photo that is not fully healed over shows no sign of rot what so ever.

ash seems to be one of those species locust too

 

[Metals406]

Seems as though youth plays a huge factor with these trims.

The younger the tree, the better. . . A 300 year old Maple, may not take to a substantial reduction like a 17 y.o Maple.

I know that's very true for conifers, if they're kept up from youth, the crown will mature into what you intended years before.

 

[forestryworks]

Yea wikipedia treated ya just fine .....

You the expert dendrologist? :monkey:

 

[ropensaddle]

Vitality I believe is the term, not necessarily age but often age related. I idea is to not have dead wood(stubs, wounds not closed) in the tree which becomes a food source for insects and microrganisms(fungi).

Mature trees slow down growth and save energy for defense against stress! I am a fan of trimming less than recommended 25 percent rule on my aged specimens unless its deadwood . At that period in the trees life it should be near ideal on its own and I attempt to remind myself, trees seemed to do just fine on their own for eons!
So in my aged specimens I try to just focus on dead wooding and very light trimming if even necessary and put more emphasis on mulching requirements and soil & water related issues.

 

[murphy4trees]

I could be wrong, but I thought branchs were to be removed at there collar. After watching the video I thought I saw alot of cuts that looked like they were stubbed off. I also was under the belief that the only active growing cambium of the tree, was at the collar. To put it in a nut shell I think your misinformed about about removing lower branches is condeming a tree to death with eminate rot,decay and destruction.

Another question I have is whats the difference of removing a 1 1/2" branch with a power saw or a hand saw.

The stubs were only left in very small wood on branch tips.. no big deal.. the large branches removed on a poor compartmentalizer are a serious problem, that may take 10-40 years to fully manifest..

When cutting small limbs with a handsaw, there is a much greater chance of splittling the limb.. for whatever reason, ther kef of the chainsaw gives a little room for the branch to move enough to prevent splitting..

 

[treeclimber101]

I was splitting black walnut yesterday and came across this pruning cut made along time ago and I think this compartmentalized just fine and this was at least a 4" cut ....View attachment 208649

 

[treeclimber101]

You the expert dendrologist? :monkey:

Thank you ....

 

[Metals406]

I was splitting black walnut yesterday and came across this pruning cut made along time ago and I think this compartmentalized just fine and this was at least a 4" cut ....View attachment 208649

Is all that black rot or dirt?

 

[TreeSurfer]

Here in the tropics, tree crews get away with murder because of all the rainfall we get. 2 out of every 5 trees have been topped or flush cut severely but they are still growing. Now does that make it right because they are still alive? Absolutely Not! They still have rotten insides and stubs that the branch collar will not ever seal over. Just because the tree is growing still doesn't mean its healthy.
What pisses me off are those guys that call themselves Arborists but don't follow the pruning standards that were developed by years and years of research with 100's of tree guys, not some hotshot who thinks because he makes videos hes a know it all. Sorry daniel but your not gonna change anything here with your videos. Who are you trying to impress here because i think the ISA isn't listening to you?

 

[treeclimber101]

Is all that black rot or dirt?

Well it was fresh split so there was a bit of moisture there from the open cavity , but the rot stops shallow enough, there was a outside piece of that I didn't get a chance to steal a pic of , that was more of the center maybe 5" in .... but that trunk was at least 30" and the cut was low on the crown and large ... I prolly coulda taken a hammer and knocked it right out clean and healed

 

[TreeSurfer]

anyone else find it funny that daniel and denial are similar? hmmmm.

 

[ropensaddle]

Here in the tropics, tree crews get away with murder because of all the rainfall we get. 2 out of every 5 trees have been topped or flush cut severely but they are still growing. Now does that make it right because they are still alive? Absolutely Not! They still have rotten insides and stubs that the branch collar will not ever seal over. Just because the tree is growing still doesn't mean its healthy.
What pisses me off are those guys that call themselves Arborists but don't follow the pruning standards that were developed by years and years of research with 100's of tree guys, not some hotshot who thinks because he makes videos hes a know it all. Sorry daniel but your not gonna change anything here with your videos. Who are you trying to impress here because i think the ISA isn't listening to you?

Lmfao I at first thought the same of ole murph. I think he means well with his videos but I always thought he reminded me of the old Asplundh safety guy. I finally see its just he wants to feel he is teaching and thats fine in 101 thread. He is a good tree man but I get a kick out of his self appointed act