proper pruning 75' tulip

[treemandan]

Do y'all ever try and sell your customers on a "do-over"? Meaning, a removal and replant of a new tree, something from a nursery that's already 15' tall.

Like on that split piece-0-crap above. If they're concerned about losing a tree, ya sell them on a replant. Don't Chinese Elm grow like 18" a year? I'm sure they're not the only fast growing tree. Or sell them on a hardier species for the area, that requires less maintenance, is less susceptible to storm damage, disease, bugs, etc.

That crotch is a split waiting to happen, like on their kid or car.

How many of you do planting, especially if the customers concern with removal is the lack of a tree in that spot?

Dude, those people do not have the money for that. Few people do. The people that do are the people who have been robbing you blind and they just get the mexicans to do it cause any other way costs to much.

does anyone think ole Murphy is stupid enough to do 600 dollars worth of work for 375?

 

[Metals406]

Dude, those people do not have the money for that. Few people do. The people that do are the people who have been robbing you blind and they just get the mexicans to do it cause any other way costs to much.

does anyone think ole Murphy is stupid enough to do 600 dollars worth of work for 375?

Ah, just thinking out loud.

I'd still push'em to remove that tree, even if they paid in a couple chickens and a coon hound. That thing's a turd.

 

[treeclimber101]

I had a really nice old lady pay me with lottery tickets and lemonade once ... I won 4.75$ too so it wasn't completely free ....

 

[superjunior]

Do y'all ever try and sell your customers on a "do-over"? Meaning, a removal and replant of a new tree, something from a nursery that's already 15' tall.

Like on that split piece-0-crap above. If they're concerned about losing a tree, ya sell them on a replant. Don't Chinese Elm grow like 18" a year? I'm sure they're not the only fast growing tree. Or sell them on a hardier species for the area, that requires less maintenance, is less susceptible to storm damage, disease, bugs, etc.

That crotch is a split waiting to happen, like on their kid or car.

How many of you do planting, especially if the customers concern with removal is the lack of a tree in that spot?

we do it all the time.
doubles the price of a removal, your missing out big time if you don't suggest this to your customers ..

 

[superjunior]

Dude, those people do not have the money for that. Few people do. The people that do are the people who have been robbing you blind and they just get the mexicans to do it cause any other way costs to much.

sorry, but your way off..maybe your not marketing yourself the right way?

 

[ropensaddle]

Poor murphy , guys comes with a incredibly genius video on proper pruning of a tulip to the point where he pruned it so well that you Can't possibly even see a difference in it and all you volchers have to say is "ya left stubs" I bet he doesn't get this kinda razzing on the TB ...

Lol vulture opcorn: Its only because of his self appointed teaching act and it being in the wrong forum. You should know genius, 101 is where it belongs.

 

[treemandan]

sorry, but your way off..maybe your not marketing yourself the right way?

market? there's a market?

Really, please don't try to suck me into this kind of conversation. Just you telling me that I don't know what I know is kinda pissing me off.

 

[beastmaster]

I hate climbing those weak ass trees, but have done many of them. Tips and all, but when your 75 ft up on a skinny limb, with a polepruner or polesaw and 6ft extension there might be a small stub here or there far out on a tip. The more pressed for time the more chance of a less then perfect end cut. Is this that wrong? maybe. Can anyone see it, doubtful. Have I ever done it? I plead the 5th.
I have done a lot of work at a botanical garden, at a university. At the request of Phd's who teach there, when ever we must remove a branch larger then 8in from the trunk(Oaks)we leave a big ugly stub at a node. The theory being that a cut that big isn't going to heal properly and cause decay in the trunk. If a 2 or 4ft stub is left, even if it develops decay, it'll prevent or slow it down from reaching the trunk. This went against my understanding of why a cut is made at a branch collar, but I now see the logic of this, though it depends a lot on the species of tree. It's still ugly as hell.
I think the bigger danger then a small stub on an end cut, is one in the improper place on the end that cause to much growth and the tips to grow back faster and heavier, and longer.
I like to think I do good work, but if I was making a video and put it on this site. I would do an extra good job knowing it was going to be pick a part.
I dislike the butchers big and small and understand where murphy is coming from.

 

[ropensaddle]

I hate climbing those weak ass trees, but have done many of them. Tips and all, but when your 75 ft up on a skinny limb, with a polepruner or polesaw and 6ft extension there might be a small stub here or there far out on a tip. The more pressed for time the more chance of a less then perfect end cut. Is this that wrong? maybe. Can anyone see it, doubtful. Have I ever done it? I plead the 5th.
I have done a lot of work at a botanical garden, at a university. At the request of Phd's who teach there, when ever we must remove a branch larger then 8in from the trunk(Oaks)we leave a big ugly stub at a node. The theory being that a cut that big isn't going to heal properly and cause decay in the trunk. If a 2 or 4ft stub is left, even if it develops decay, it'll prevent or slow it down from reaching the trunk. This went against my understanding of why a cut is made at a branch collar, but I now see the logic of this, though it depends a lot on the species of tree. It's still ugly as hell.
I think the bigger danger then a small stub on an end cut, is one in the improper place on the end that cause to much growth and the tips to grow back faster and heavier, and longer.
I like to think I do good work, but if I was making a video and put it on this site. I would do an extra good job knowing it was going to be pick a part.
I dislike the butchers big and small and understand where murphy is coming from.

Yeah climbing them is peta but I think he said he used a lift and there is a difference in a small stub near the bbpz and one at a tip. But yeah I get it, we have all left one where a suitable lateral did not exist. I hate leaving one but in certain cases like tip die back in some specimens it may be more detrimental drop crotching back to find lateral. The thing which seems to bring out the criticism is the teaching act, as; most here have done reductions. I was doing them in 84 and not leaving stubs mostly. I have went back to see healthy results from my early efforts. I have had the benefit of seeing many good tree men in my years and Murph could be included in that roster but in no way are we unique imo.

 

[thepheniox]

I just don't get someone preaching about what and how he's doing something. Critizing all the other hacks in his area. Remember he talked about how they don't care about the trees. That's why I care about the stubs. If your gonna post a video about proper pruning than post one. It would not have taken much extra time to make the proper cuts up there.

 

[superjunior]

market? there's a market?

Really, please don't try to suck me into this kind of conversation. Just you telling me that I don't know what I know is kinda pissing me off.

sorry, didn't mean to offend..
Just sayin that their is good money to be made by planting new trees after a removal. A lot of times the customer will attempt it themselves or have their landscaper do it. I'll suggest it right on the quote for the removal and more times then not get the work

 

[sgreanbeans]

I always suggest a new tree, and plant many off them. Sometimes they just go to big box and get them, that's ok too, as long as they are planting something. I only deal with B&B's, and from only good nursery. I need to pick up a auger for my skidloader, makes for a much easier day than diggin by hand!

 

[treeseer]

.... when your 75 ft up on a skinny limb, with a polepruner or polesaw and 6ft extension there might be a small stub here or there far out on a tip. The more pressed for time the more chance of a less then perfect end cut. Is this that wrong? maybe. Can anyone see it, doubtful. Have I ever done it? I plead the 5th.
I have done a lot of work at a botanical garden, at a university. At the request of Phd's who teach there, when ever we must remove a branch larger then 8in from the trunk(Oaks)we leave a big ugly stub at a node. The theory being that a cut that big isn't going to heal properly and cause decay in the trunk. If a 2 or 4ft stub is left, even if it develops decay, it'll prevent or slow it down from reaching the trunk. AND IT ALLOWS A COLLAR TO FORM BEFORE DECAY MOVES DOWN THERE, SO A CUT CAN BE MADE AT THE ORIGIN IF THE "STUB" DECAYS. This went against my understanding of why a cut is made at a branch collar, but I now see the logic of this, though it depends a lot on the species of tree. It's still ugly as hell. ..

Only because we all have the image of The Perfect Collar Cut burned into our brains. Time to get beyond that paradigm/mental limit and check deeper into the botany behind where cuts can and should be made. Nodal cuts into young tissue may look weird at first, but there's nothing uglier than expanding heartrot from a big branch wound into old tissue. Murph's little "stubs" will not be noticeable in a few years, but heartrot is forever.

:wink2:

 

[beastmaster]

Treeseer, Thank you for expanding my explanation. I am a old tree grunt but I try to stay open to new ideas and not base my actions on what is considered the norm but on what works and is best for the tree. I now notice how many big trunk cuts have caused a weekness in an otherwise healthy tree, where if a large stub cut at a node or lateral had been left the decay wouldn't of made it to the trunk. It looks bad to me still and to others unprofessional leaving that stub, but 10 years down the road that tree will still be structurally sound in that area. I now explane this to costumers and let them decide. I also know somewhere down the line some other tree person will more then likily bad mouth my action.

 

[ropensaddle]

Only because we all have the image of The Perfect Collar Cut burned into our brains. Time to get beyond that paradigm/mental limit and check deeper into the botany behind where cuts can and should be made. Nodal cuts into young tissue may look weird at first, but there's nothing uglier than expanding heartrot from a big branch wound into old tissue. Murph's little "stubs" will not be noticeable in a few years, but heartrot is forever.

:wink2:

Yes it will not be noticeable except for the flurry of sucker growth resulting. Are we now saying stubs is best ? Is this going to become a type of mature pollard where we head aging trees back two seasons and go back to remove suckers ? I think imo if a suitable lateral exists I will use it but if not a nodal cut is a possibly better alternative than dropping on down to a suitable lateral. At two to three inch wood we are into a few years growth likely, so cut just outside the terminal bud scale scar at maybe two seasons might be acceptable? Anyway; it does not change the fact this specimen was not planted in the optimum location, poplar is not an ideal choice near a home imo. Now Magnolia soulangiana is a better choice there imo.

If the tree has heart rot a stump may be a better solution and replaced by one of these

http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/2008/04/20/ic_conifers/8469df.jpg


http://www.marcumsnursery.com/descriptions/treepics/SaucerMagnolia.jpg

 

[pdqdl]

Sheeit! Howz bout YOU show us a better example... OK?

...

Well... I could, but you'd have to come to KC to see it. We never took pictures, so I guess it never happened, eh?

We sold light trim & deadwooding on a very good customer on her monster pin oak. It had to be 80' tall, and it was just short of 4' dbh. I had to fire the first climber that I put in it, 'cause I wouldn't let him spur up it, and he was afraid of the height before he only got halfway up the tree.

That lady made us crawl all the way out onto every limb to pull the twigs off. We were pruning all kinds of silly stuff out of that tree for only $400.00. It still took all day with very good climber in it, and yes, we lost money on that tree. BUT! The interior was trimmed and deadwooded just as well in the interior as it was at the tips.

Unlike murph, who did what the customer wanted and still made money, we did what the lady wanted and lost our ass.

 

[ropensaddle]

Well... I could, but you'd have to come to KC to see it. We never took pictures, so I guess it never happened, eh?

We sold light trim & deadwooding on a very good customer on her monster pin oak. It had to be 80' tall, and it was just short of 4' dbh. I had to fire the first climber that I put in it, 'cause I wouldn't let him spur up it, and he was afraid of the height before he only got halfway up the tree.

That lady made us crawl all the way out onto every limb to pull the twigs off. We were pruning all kinds of silly stuff out of that tree for only $400.00. It still took all day with very good climber in it, and yes, we lost money on that tree. BUT! The interior was trimmed and deadwooded just as well in the interior as it was at the tips.

Unlike murph, who did what the customer wanted and still made money, we did what the lady wanted and lost our ass.

Lol pd sounds like a bad day bro look on the bright side no tractor got flipped

I take it no time to make a video huh:monkey:

 

[pdqdl]

Lol pd sounds like a bad day bro look on the bright side no tractor got flipped

I take it no time to make a video huh:monkey:

Youtube doesn't accept 8 hour videos. That lady was out there pointing at each little 1/2" dead twig. Heck, that tree looked pretty nice before we ever touched it. Yes! The tractors were all safe on that one.

Speaking of flipping tractors, I got a new contract to mow 22 acres for over $18,000 each cut! Two mowings per year, no less. Too bad its nothing but 2:1 slopes and cattail swamps. You should have seen me mowing the last and worst hill...sideways...with a rubber track skidsteer and a hydraulic mower. None of my guys would go near it, and I didn't really encourage them to, either. I didn't want to pay for a rented machine.

 

[ropensaddle]

Youtube doesn't accept 8 hour videos. That lady was out there pointing at each little 1/2" dead twig. Heck, that tree looked pretty nice before we ever touched it. Yes! The tractors were all safe on that one.

Speaking of flipping tractors, I got a new contract to mow 22 acres for over $18,000 each cut! Two mowings per year, no less. Too bad its nothing but 2:1 slopes and cattail swamps. You should have seen me mowing the last and worst hill...sideways...with a rubber track skidsteer and a hydraulic mower. None of my guys would go near it, and I didn't really encourage them to, either. I didn't want to pay for a rented machine.

Yeah sounds a little hairy try that on row with a 2wd tractor lol we got some steep chit too! That old long was on two wheels more than one the whole time we had it. Never rolled it but was saved a time or two by the timberline Alls I can say is I taint skeered

 

[peetar]

I'm sorry Murph but your way off on this.

You bashed the cutting of some lower limbs becuase they were 6in.. It was totally clear that the phone and cable lines ran right across those cuts.

Would you rather have the whole tree removed, or only those limbs? It appears you did a very nice job on the crown of the tree,......but..... the HO would probably have a different answer than you if they couldn't have a phone or TV service.

You don't own the trees, the home owner does. If the HO would like a wooded lot AND a phone and a TV, they just might choose to remove a couple of lower limbs regardless of their diameter. You will probably be dead and dust before anyone gets to see what effect the line clearing cuts had to do with the death of this tree.