property damage after the fact

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to the guys that offered real advice, thanks i appreciate it. i looked up the prices for those pools and brand new they are around $1500, so paying $1500 for a repair sounds fishey to me, also they swam in that pool all through the summer and now theres a problem? anyway, i will try to make things right and offer him a settlement, but i am not buying him a new pool, i would rather let him deal with the ins. company. to the haters out there, i do professional work, i'm really good at what i do, half of the work i get is from referrals, so i must be doing something right. what happened with the pool was rare and unfortunate, and if it happened a lot you'd see me here everyday askin what the hell to do, but everyone slips up every once in a while.







www.EarthMoverInc.com
 
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"haters" sir, I don't think anyone replied to your post who "hated" you.

You cannot take a negative comment personally. If you do, then do not not post. To most people in here, maybe all, you are just a faceless name who wrote something wanting a reply. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone who has done tree work for awhile has had a mishap, and done some damage along the way. This situation is unique, but not really that uncommon. Sounds like you made a good decision, but don't take negative comments personnally. Maybe you know some of these guys in the real world, maybe not, but to me and probably most of the others...all we know of you is in your posts. Take it easy and good luck with this pita.
 
In the final analysis, documentation is the key. It either makes or breaks liability issues. Obviously mistakes were made here and that's perfectly normal for any business, let alone ours. When you dropped the limb and dinged the pool, you did the right thing when you had a pool guy come out. At that point, a statement should have been drawn up, by you or your attorney, and signed by the pool guy wherein he affirmed that he examined the pool and found it free from any damage that would lead to later problems. In this way, you would get him involved in any legal action, at a later date, and spread the liability, lessening your portion of any actual recoverable damages. A ton of photos should have been taken, as well.

To sweeten the deal. if you could have gotten the home owner to sign off on a waiver of liability document that agreed to hold you blameless for any future damages that might occur to the pool, in return for your giving him some kind of monetary break in your final price on the tree job, you would be sitting fairly confortably, now. You might be surprised how many home owners would sign such a document for an immediate break on the price of a given gig. As long as the break was less than the current $1500, you would have done the right thing. Of course you might need a crystal ball to figure out the break amount, at the time of the damage.

A possible problem, here, assuming you didn't get a liability waiver, would be the qualifications of that first pool guy. That would be an issue in court, as opposed to the other pool guy who, down the road, dumped the fault of the leak on you. If the first pool guy was seen to be more qualified, and a jury/judge believed that the damage you did was not the cause of the leak, it might decide in your favor. Of course the opposite might happen if the second guy was seen as the expert.

A tangential issue would be the insurance coverage of the first pool guy. If his insurance came into play with his signing off on your initial damage, you might get the attorneys from that insurance company involved and get some free help, there. If your insurance company got involved, as well, a team approach might get you off the hook, so to speak. Keep in mind that different states have different laws regarding how this scenario might actually go down.

Once the leak was found, you should have immediately gone out with the first pool guy and, again, gotten him to sign a statement giving his opinion on what was going on, to the effect that the leak was not caused by the limb drop, some time back. At that point, the customer would reach the point that he would either sue you, or drop the ball and fix the leak himself.

Of course you do need to decide what the hassle factor is here, for you. With legal wranglings, your time might be worth a lot more than the $1500.

As to your offering him a settlement: Once you looked at the leak area, something I hope you have done, lately, you probably got a very good idea about whether or not you were the cause of the problem. While your business is not pools, if the leak is in the exact area where you dropped the limb, and any surrounding structural damage might be seen to manifest in an uneven distribution of the water pressure, leading to a leak, as a pool owner, myself, I have a pretty good feeling that you will know if you have a case in contesting the damage in court.

Best of luck to you.

HOLD ON!!! I just reread your first post. You say that the home owner had the first pool guy come out. That changes the story, possibly BIG TIME! You can consult an attorney, which you should definitely do, but my gut feeling is, now, that the first pool guy is a major part of this suit, whether he likes it or not. You trusted the home owner to get a fellow who knew his stuff, and you took the first pool guy at his word. You trusted his expert opinion. You did not feel compelled to hire your own expert, as the home owner went ahead and relieved you of your liability, here, by paying you and sending you on your way. If you had your own expert come out, and the courts will determine if that was needed, he might have pointed out things that needed to be done to prevent a leak, in the future. The fact that the home owner hired the pool guy and that guy assured both of you that everything was OK, is crucial in your attempting to seek a favorable ruling. Again, you did not have any reason, at the point where the first, home owner-hired, pool guy gave the OK, to go any further in preventing future damage. Had you done so, the leak might never have occured later down the road.

DON'T SETTLE HERE, WITHOUT CONSULTING YOUR ATTORNEY. Be sure to let him know that it was the home owner who hired the first pool guy and that the home owner was satisfied with the initial finding and then paid you, in full.

I have sued people, successfully. I have been writing contracts since I was twelve. My contracts have held up in court and I have been told, by lawyers, that I should teach contract law. I have an excellent "feel" for the law and I feel that you might not have any liability here, if this case is handled correctly. That being said, I am NOT a lawyer, so everything and anything I said, above, might be totally off-base and out in left field.

Again, good luck!
 
No worries

I'd suspect some deception here... if the pool and the repair both cost the same. That said... I thinik it is more of an issue of personal integrity than anything else. If you think the damage was casued by you, then you need to address that. At this point though, I think it is on the homeowner to demonstrate that you did the damage, and that the damages are really worth $1500. If he does, then do as your conscience dictates. $1500 is hardly worth the trouble to go to court over. And since you have been paid... it is the homeowner that would have to go to court. In Pennsylvania, a judgement of $1500 is hard to enforce and so expensive it is better left alone. And I certainly wouldn;t waste any $ on a lawyer...
 
I would pay just to get your customer off your back, and keep him/her happy. I certainly wouldn't claim on you Insurance because the reflection in your next premium could be a large as that anyway.

An unhappy customer will tell ten other people were unhappy with your service, a happy customer will also tell ten others they were happy. If they are being fraudulent shame on them, but be the bigger person, and don't lose any reputation.
 
In the final analysis, documentation is the key. It either makes or breaks liability issues. Obviously mistakes were made here and that's perfectly normal for any business, let alone ours. When you dropped the limb and dinged the pool, you did the right thing when you had a pool guy come out. At that point, a statement should have been drawn up, by you or your attorney, and signed by the pool guy wherein he affirmed that he examined the pool and found it free from any damage that would lead to later problems. In this way, you would get him involved in any legal action, at a later date, and spread the liability, lessening your portion of any actual recoverable damages. A ton of photos should have been taken, as well.

To sweeten the deal. if you could have gotten the home owner to sign off on a waiver of liability document that agreed to hold you blameless for any future damages that might occur to the pool, in return for your giving him some kind of monetary break in your final price on the tree job, you would be sitting fairly confortably, now. You might be surprised how many home owners would sign such a document for an immediate break on the price of a given gig. As long as the break was less than the current $1500, you would have done the right thing. Of course you might need a crystal ball to figure out the break amount, at the time of the damage.

A possible problem, here, assuming you didn't get a liability waiver, would be the qualifications of that first pool guy. That would be an issue in court, as opposed to the other pool guy who, down the road, dumped the fault of the leak on you. If the first pool guy was seen to be more qualified, and a jury/judge believed that the damage you did was not the cause of the leak, it might decide in your favor. Of course the opposite might happen if the second guy was seen as the expert.

A tangential issue would be the insurance coverage of the first pool guy. If his insurance came into play with his signing off on your initial damage, you might get the attorneys from that insurance company involved and get some free help, there. If your insurance company got involved, as well, a team approach might get you off the hook, so to speak. Keep in mind that different states have different laws regarding how this scenario might actually go down.

Once the leak was found, you should have immediately gone out with the first pool guy and, again, gotten him to sign a statement giving his opinion on what was going on, to the effect that the leak was not caused by the limb drop, some time back. At that point, the customer would reach the point that he would either sue you, or drop the ball and fix the leak himself.

Of course you do need to decide what the hassle factor is here, for you. With legal wranglings, your time might be worth a lot more than the $1500.

As to your offering him a settlement: Once you looked at the leak area, something I hope you have done, lately, you probably got a very good idea about whether or not you were the cause of the problem. While your business is not pools, if the leak is in the exact area where you dropped the limb, and any surrounding structural damage might be seen to manifest in an uneven distribution of the water pressure, leading to a leak, as a pool owner, myself, I have a pretty good feeling that you will know if you have a case in contesting the damage in court.

Best of luck to you.

HOLD ON!!! I just reread your first post. You say that the home owner had the first pool guy come out. That changes the story, possibly BIG TIME! You can consult an attorney, which you should definitely do, but my gut feeling is, now, that the first pool guy is a major part of this suit, whether he likes it or not. You trusted the home owner to get a fellow who knew his stuff, and you took the first pool guy at his word. You trusted his expert opinion. You did not feel compelled to hire your own expert, as the home owner went ahead and relieved you of your liability, here, by paying you and sending you on your way. If you had your own expert come out, and the courts will determine if that was needed, he might have pointed out things that needed to be done to prevent a leak, in the future. The fact that the home owner hired the pool guy and that guy assured both of you that everything was OK, is crucial in your attempting to seek a favorable ruling. Again, you did not have any reason, at the point where the first, home owner-hired, pool guy gave the OK, to go any further in preventing future damage. Had you done so, the leak might never have occured later down the road.

DON'T SETTLE HERE, WITHOUT CONSULTING YOUR ATTORNEY. Be sure to let him know that it was the home owner who hired the first pool guy and that the home owner was satisfied with the initial finding and then paid you, in full.

I have sued people, successfully. I have been writing contracts since I was twelve. My contracts have held up in court and I have been told, by lawyers, that I should teach contract law. I have an excellent "feel" for the law and I feel that you might not have any liability here, if this case is handled correctly. That being said, I am NOT a lawyer, so everything and anything I said, above, might be totally off-base and out in left field.

Again, good luck!


Well I'll say. Who would have thought all that.
 
I would hire a third pool guy, or maybe the first to look at it again. Could be that the damage caused something that wore on the liner over time.

If it is verifiable that the leak is caused by your actions, why should you not make the customer whole?
 
what kind of swimming pool did the Home owner have that only cost $1500, I just helped my dad put in a used pool last year, above ground, not in bad shape & that cost him $2500

unfortunately you were there, did work & did hit the pool, 3 strikes!! I had similar happen to me cuz the customer wanted his stump ground which wasnt in the agreement, he even called my house left message on my machine "blackmailing" me...."if you do the stump fer free I wont turn you in fer busting up my sidewalk" well I laugh at him & send the tape to my agent, yes there is a crack in the sidewalk...we dont know if it was from your work or from the tree roots lifting the sidewalk, which is the reason I removed the tree in the first place.

Long story short.....he has up to 2 years to file a claim in PA, I was told that because I was there that to prove me not at fault would cost more than the 1/3 they offered him, even with my answering machine tape it didnt matter, he made $250 for just filing a claim!!

Be careful, Be Safe!!


LXT..............
 
well I laugh at him & send the tape to my agent, yes there is a crack in the sidewalk...we dont know if it was from your work or from the tree roots lifting the sidewalk, which is the reason I removed the tree in the first place.
..

Hmm, now we got to take pictures of cracked sidewalks too?
 
Hmm, now we got to take pictures of cracked sidewalks too?

Sadly as society is becoming more litigious and looking for someone else to take the blame and pay the bills, the answer is yes. :(
I take pictures of driveways that have existing damage before backing my truck up on them. I let the customer know that I have documented it also. Had one guy tell me he never knew a crack was there until I showed him, I am sure he would have found it after I left if I did not see it first. :clap:
 
Id take a look at it, with your pool guy, see if its the damage you did or something new. Consider how him bad mouthing you could hurt your business, how much damage can he do?
 
I hate to say it but as the economy worsens....I look for contractors insurance to take a big hit, people wanting things fixed for nothing & what better way to do it!!

This year dot the "i`s" & cross the "T`s" on those contracts folks or it could spell trouble!!




LXT...............
 
To fishy for me, I'm all for fixing it if you broke it. 7 months!! no way, specially w/above ground. basically they used it for the rest of the summer, winterized it and after a colder than normal winter they see something wrong. typical insurance guy if you ask me knowing damn well he'll pocket some money and fix it half ass anyway. I no they should have lowered the water level and maintained it below the skimmer. you don't empty lined pools the liner shrinks and will dry, when filled it will tear like a wet paper towel. I have a vacant house four doors down w/above ground, been picking up pieces of the liner for the past 2 month due to wind and not properly winterized. Get a company to represent you and go look at it!!! make him spend that money to take you to court in this sue happy world we live in.
 
I hate to say it but as the economy worsens....I look for contractors insurance to take a big hit, people wanting things fixed for nothing & what better way to do it!!

This year dot the "i`s" & cross the "T`s" on those contracts folks or it could spell trouble!!




LXT...............


I definitely hear that. It's bad enough at the best of times. Watch out for the booby traps!
 

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