Pros and cons of hiring employees

[treemandan]

I am starting to wonder if anyone in my area actually runs there company truely "by the book". I am starting to think its not possible. When I start pushing numbers....dont look good. I have seen to many other companies bids over the years and there is NO WAY they are paying WC. Although there have been some cases where a bigger company that I am sure is legit is awful cheap to so i dont get it.....

Starting to wonder?

This fine proud ccountry was erected by the broken backs of slaves, refugees and unfair wages. And we had to fight to the death all the way to where we are now. WHY? There was no other way to get the book math to add up. You can not pay a man a fair wage to do the proletarian work and make a profit at the same time. Don't you think if it were possible it would have been done by now?
I just want everbody to know that money is not the main reason I do the thing with the trees. It surely is more for glory.

 

[TreeAce]

Starting to wonder?

LOL...care to elaborate?

 

[TreeClimber57]

I just want everbody to know that money is not the main reason I do the thing with the trees. It surely is more for glory.

Well not exactly sure what you own for equipment, or what your overhead costs are

But money has to become a factor at some point.. or you will not be doing it forever (unless you happened to get a nice inheritance or win a lottery).

 

[Bowhunter01]

Holy smokes! Wow, I hurt my eyes reading all the replies. I'm kind of concerned, sounds like WC is a major consideration. I would probably need to double my sales, but I think I can do that.

What about training? As an employer, what would I be required to provide as far as chainsaw saftey, first aid, etc?

Does TCIA or ISA have mentoring available for its members? I really wish I could sit down with someone who was not in direct competition with me and ask a bunch of questions. I can keep going like I am, but I'm worried about what I'll be doing ten years from now when I'm all old and crippled up.

 

[TreeClimber57]

Holy smokes! Wow, I hurt my eyes reading all the replies. I'm kind of concerned, sounds like WC is a major consideration. I would probably need to double my sales, but I think I can do that.

What about training? As an employer, what would I be required to provide as far as chainsaw saftey, first aid, etc?

Does TCIA or ISA have mentoring available for its members? I really wish I could sit down with someone who was not in direct competition with me and ask a bunch of questions. I can keep going like I am, but I'm worried about what I'll be doing ten years from now when I'm all old and crippled up.

Well WC sounds like it can be significant in some areas.

TCIA has some info for sure..

Sitting down and chatting is good.. but works best if somebody close to you (but then you get into your competition issue).. as anybody farther away may have somewhat different items to worry about.

But worth sitting down with anybody who is willing.. personally I would do it.. but fear my area is so different that it would really be only a 50% value to you (as we are in different countries).

 

[alpineman]

For those of you who run more than one crew, do you think there was a time when you got past the "wall" and started making more money. Seems like there is a breaking point where you finally start doing enough production that you make more money. A friend in the biz told me the other day that he made good money at $200K, then actually less at $400K(due to the need for more employees and equipment) and then started making bank at $600k in gross sales.

 

[jefflovstrom]

.

Holy smokes! Wow, I hurt my eyes reading all the replies. I'm kind of concerned, sounds like WC is a major consideration. I would probably need to double my sales, but I think I can do that.

What about training? As an employer, what would I be required to provide as far as chainsaw saftey, first aid, etc?

Does TCIA or ISA have mentoring available for its members? I really wish I could sit down with someone who was not in direct competition with me and ask a bunch of questions. I can keep going like I am, but I'm worried about what I'll be doing ten years from now when I'm all old and crippled up.

Ask away,

Jeff

 

[jefflovstrom]

For those of you who run more than one crew, do you think there was a time when you got past the "wall" and started making more money. Seems like there is a breaking point where you finally start doing enough production that you make more money. A friend in the biz told me the other day that he made good money at $200K, then actually less at $400K(due to the need for more employees and equipment) and then started making bank at $600k in gross sales.

I run three crews. I could use another 5 man crew. Once you pass the 1.5 million it takes on a new life'
Jeff

 

[TreeAce]

I run three crews. I could use another 5 man crew. Once you pass the 1.5 million it takes on a new life'
Jeff

But thats in California dollars.

 

[jefflovstrom]

But thats in California dollars.

Ah, How true. 50% WC and just the cost of living.
Jeff

 

[TreeAce]

Ah, How true. 50% WC and just the cost of living.
Jeff

Well, it's impressive non the less.

 

[mpatch]

I run three crews. I could use another 5 man crew. Once you pass the 1.5 million it takes on a new life'
Jeff

Not sure if you can/will be able to answer this but what is your wage percentage or average man hour rate for a year?

 

[TreeClimber57]

For those of you who run more than one crew, do you think there was a time when you got past the "wall" and started making more money. Seems like there is a breaking point where you finally start doing enough production that you make more money. A friend in the biz told me the other day that he made good money at $200K, then actually less at $400K(due to the need for more employees and equipment) and then started making bank at $600k in gross sales.

That is true in just about any business.

Start in your home.. with one truck in your yard.
Some maybe not paying all the taxes and WC, etc at this point. Maybe have residential phone line, share internet with home etc.
Then maybe hire a person - maybe part time.. maybe still not paying all.
Then maybe full time person.. and maybe start paying some WC, etc.
Then maybe a 2nd truck.
Then maybe move to another locations for bigger building.. get phone, internet, insurance, electricial.. now cost go up..
This is typically 1st point where cost go up and now need to get more work to make as much money as before..
Then an expansion when outgrow 1st location can make another bump..
Once you reach a point where adding a 3rd, 4th vehicle, or a few other guys does not mean expansion in other areas then you are now at a point where you can make some money.

 

[NCTREE]

Starting to wonder?

This fine proud ccountry was erected by the broken backs of slaves, refugees and unfair wages. And we had to fight to the death all the way to where we are now. WHY? There was no other way to get the book math to add up. You can not pay a man a fair wage to do the proletarian work and make a profit at the same time. Don't you think if it were possible it would have been done by now?
I just want everbody to know that money is not the main reason I do the thing with the trees. It surely is more for glory.

Well if the gov. and insuance companies would stop sticking their hands in our pockets freely then maybe it be a little easier for the small businees man to survive. Obama should be working on reforming small business tax laws and insurance price gouging instead of health care and credit card industry.

 

[Bowhunter01]

I haven't slept too well for the last few nights. I keep thinking over and over "Workers Comp, 1.5 Times Payroll, Overhead, Marketing...did I plug the block heaters in...Workers Comp, do I hear water running somewhere..". Ugh. I'm wearing myself out, before I even get out of bed!

I'm stepping it up this year. I'm gonna make something happen. Got an appointment with my accountant tonight. If I can double or triple my sales, then I'll just have to deal with the bigger overhead costs.

Juggling all the different responsibilities of a small one man type business is not easy. I'm just gonna hit it hard and hire some help, including a couple hours a week book keeper.

 

[pdqdl]

That would show up in payroll, holiday pay shows up in the check. I think there is a way to code things so that it does not show up in IC & W/C numbers though, but then i am not an accountant. I recall hearing some things.

It's easy.

Your accounting has to be set up with work class codes for each employee, each hour they work. Let's see...Employee#1: 16 hrs tree time, 24 hrs park-noc, 10hrs of "sales". Cut him a check, workers comp accounting is done.

It's a little more work, but look at all the money you save while being completely legit.

 

[pdqdl]

I haven't slept too well for the last few nights. I keep thinking over and over "Workers Comp, 1.5 Times Payroll, Overhead, Marketing...did I plug the block heaters in...Workers Comp, do I hear water running somewhere..". Ugh. I'm wearing myself out, before I even get out of bed!

I'm stepping it up this year. I'm gonna make something happen. Got an appointment with my accountant tonight. If I can double or triple my sales, then I'll just have to deal with the bigger overhead costs.

Juggling all the different responsibilities of a small one man type business is not easy. I'm just gonna hit it hard and hire some help, including a couple hours a week book keeper.

I hear AMBITION running in the background. Good for you.

It sounds like you need to learn how to use that ambition to power your working hours for a better life off the clock, not as a gnawing pain that troubles you around the clock.

 

[lxt]

It's easy.

Your accounting has to be set up with work class codes for each employee, each hour they work. Let's see...Employee#1: 16 hrs tree time, 24 hrs park-noc, 10hrs of "sales". Cut him a check, workers comp accounting is done.

It's a little more work, but look at all the money you save while being completely legit.

see here that dont work! If my guy goes up in a tree on monday & tuesday I have him doing a landscape job............doesnt matter! he is still considered tree care, here alot of guys get away with improper WC, a landscape company pays around $12-$15 a hundred....while a tree care service pays $26-$32 a hundred........This is how some will get by bidding cheaper!

I alert all customers to make sure their contractor has the right insurance!!! what does his insurance specifically cover? some of these guys have WC but their code is for that of a grass cutter/landscaper..........but they are doing tree work & landing municipal contracts!!! the one contractor was questioned about his insurance the twp didnt want to pay him cause he was not properly insured through WC................they ended up paying him!!! it was a verification error on the twp, they asked for WC & got it........they just didnt specify!!



LXT................

 

[Bowhunter01]

Yeah, I'm happy with the way things have gone up til now, but I need to either DO this, or do something else. I'm coming to the end of my 6th year in business, and it has grown tremendously, but I'm at the end of what I can accomplish on my own as one physical person. So either I step up or step down.

I think I'm mostly through with the worrying, now I'm about ready to start drumming up some more calls. A lot more. Just been kind of wondering what the next ten or twenty years would bring, and if I'd be able to retire someday to a small farm and hunt and fish a lot, or just simply run out of physical ability and be forced to bag groceries. I better do my best to build up a company I can sell out of someday.

I go through these spells, usually for about a week at a time, where I wake up wide awake at about 2:30 thinking about something. I hate it. If I fall back to sleep, I'm dead tired and can hardly get up even at 6 or 7. A lot of times I just stay up and hit the desk for a while before its time to head out. Sucks when its 5 or 6 days in a row though, like today.

 

[Toddppm]

Hah, I come up with some crazy ideas in the middle of the night or remember something vitally important to a job or scheduling etc. Amazingly I usually remeber when I wake up, probably because it takes a while to go back to sleep.

Don't get into snowplowing if you don't like waking up at odd hours all the time either

You have the right idea, build your business into something valuable to somebody else in the future, not just to you right now. Got to separate yourself from the actual work. I hate these dumb sayings because they sure as #### don't hold water all the time but :

Work smarter not harder
You have to work on the business not in it
blah, blah, blah:msp_flapper: