Pulleys

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i couldn't pull up the CMI site this mourn; but i believe the 'single' pulley is only made/sold in this size for special purpose stuff. That there is not much reason not to get the drop eye/double ended pulley (w/~5% more friction); except for special needs. About the same weight and size in the 2 models (drop eye or not).

i think CMI only makes the single pulley in this size with the bearings as a specialty option; and also some aluminum (stenght drop)cheekplate models for smaller size and weight as a specialty concern. The utility of the extra eye for a line or another pulley is too much 'goody' to have ready, not to take it along instead of a single, save for special interest. There are more expensive drop eye w/bearing$ available i think (CMI).

In simple, redirect lowering/holding, the slightly reduced efficiency of the bushing, actually would help reduce line load minutely, thereby minutely (compared to more expensive bearings) lower support load, per non lifting position. Also lowering is more likely for it to take a shocking, bearings don't take this as well as bushings, and further could mark the axle that they ride on, accelerating wear, decreasing that last 5% efficiency you paid for too. The sliding sleeve of a bushing spreads out stress better to the axle, and is less persnickity about imperfections in the axle; as 2 seperate positives, IMLHO.

i only thought that Sherrill sold the bearing pulley for compression and lifting jig type uses, made it a single to keep the alike looking CMI pulleys (same cheek plates) seperated in bushing/bearing divisions. That is where the inefficiency of the bushing would be against you, not for you. And each occurance of the less efficient bushing in the 5x1 lifting/compression jig etc., would compound/multiply against your efforts to lift (just as if lowering/holding they would multiply there inefficiencies together to help fight gravity).

Sherrill used to sell a 2" wide rescue pulley aluminum (mine grew legs....) but not a CMI. i wish they would again, as it could tuck under another pulley on the drop eye/double pulley chained together, and not let the lines rub in compounding jig lifts; kinda like a modular fiddle block assembley slapped together with rescue pulleys.

Seeing as there is only so much energy in a system, each system can have an energy crisis, the bearings addresses this at a price besides dollars IMLHO.


:blob2: So git the 'double pulley' fer less if you are in the market, and understand JP's warning:blob2:

:alien:
 
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OK guys, here it is: the main reason the price is so much different between the two is that the double ender has a bushing and the single has a bearing. The price difference between the bushing and bearing pulleys is a lot different. That is how it was explained to me by CMI.

-Sean
 
Thanx Sean,

Looks like them lil 2" pulley might be a CMI after all

Some fascinating reading in the Freebie CMI Online Catalog and Guide ; giving definitions, warnings, wonderous strategies, strengths etc. like a Sherrill catalog. And the price is right too!

i'm sure that the efficiency of the RP125 is a'lil overated there by calculation error to come up with more than 200% efficiency between 2 sheaves!:eek:
 
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Originally posted by rbtreole McPeak...: :rolleyes:

Look closely at this pic, there's 4 guys, one is ex world champ Mark Chisholm...JPS may be hiding behind a little limb. 5000 feet of line were in use during this largest ever prune job. err and a few errrr pulleys...and other sundry toys!! [/B]




now thats one job id love to have been on:)
 
Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
... For some reason Sherrill has the stainless double ended pulley (15218) for $29 and the single stainless pulley (15216) is $45. I own both and there is absolutely no difference except the 15218 allows you to clip on opposite ends. ...


:p
 
Originally posted by rbtree

Look closely at this pic, there's 4 guys, one is ex world champ Mark Chisholm...JPS may be hiding behind a little limb. 5000 feet of line were in use during this largest ever prune job. err and a few errrr pulleys...and other sundry toys!!

I was allways on the shady side of the tree, so don't have any good pics of me up there. They are all me on the ground, or a siloette.:(
 
I feel weird asking this but who cares. When you guys first started using pullies was it because the twelve or sixteen strand rope you are using doesn't run as good in a natural crotch as a three strand does? The reason I ask was because all I ever used was three strand for rigging. I want to wear all my three strand rope out then I will try some twelve or sixteen strand rope.
 
I use mostly double braid for rigging, for some reason I've stuck with Sampson.

I started using blocks and pullies because of the versatility it goves you. You dont have to rely where the crotches exist allready. I can move the block over and have the piece drop where I want it to.

In trim woirk, your not burning the bark out of a crotch.

Smaller stuff will run better and I can get the rope back up to me faster. after the line is around half way up it will go the rest of the way it'self (wich can be a probelm if a stopper knot is not in the right place.

For most people, once the see it in use it's a V-8 moment.
 
I use them because they are easier to use than not.

If you use one every time for a week, you will not go back. I never heard of a guy using a pulley, then saying, "No, this is to hard, I'm going back to natural crotches."

Say tou want to make the limb you are working go up as it's cut. Just cut the notch on top and back cut on the bottom and say "pull" to your groundy.
Say you are lowering a piece and it gets hung up. Just yell "pull" to your groundy.
Say you are 50 feet up and you want the end of the bull rope, put your hand loosely around the rope and just yell "pull".
Say you want to mess with your groundy, just yell "push".
 
Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
If you are setting a lowering line remotely (with throwline and BigShot), it is much more time consuming to set a pulley.

If a good TIP is available then a retrievable block is no harder to set then a climbing line.
 
Tie the block off to a rope

set the rigging line in the block so that you can still reach both ends when it is pulled up

raise block to desired hight and secure rope at the base of the tree.


to retrieve the block, pull on the rigging lines after untieing the block line from the trees base. taking crare not to pull the rigging rope outof the block.

Now you tell the method for the "secured retrievable. You did it once before.
 
For the one branch I'll use natural crotch too.

If I'm doing several large ones, i may set a block.

We set a drift line today for a few logs rigged out over a deck (we don't have mnay $1m houses here though) that was natural crotch too. And my clients Arborplex burn rope.

I'm not advocating over rigging a job, I know people who do. I'm just a big believer in the efficacy of low friction rigging.
 
Rocky,
I hear you and every thing we do in a tree is a judgment call... In a way that 's why it rarely gets boring for me.... its not just how can I get x done... its what is the most efficient way to get x done... and everyone has a different answer based on their knowledge, skill, experience and the available equipment..

Liike everything else, setting a retreivable block gets faster with experience... Keeping the rigging ropes stacked in large tupperware is handy... I keep a couple extra blocks handy, that are not attached to slings... use a double(d) bowline tied to the block and just feed the lowering line through the block, tie it to anything on the ground and pull the block up leaves line set... One way to retieve that tends to jam up less is to tie a stopper knot in the lowering line and pull block down with one end of lowering line...

I really like to rig into adjacent trees and like using the retrievable block set with the big shot to do so.... I usually have plenty of rope ready to go... Works for me...
 
If laying line in open crotch or over open branch; and using a bowline to hoist block etc. i favour double bowline with Y tie off too. i make it very long so that the device is carried on one side of the support on the 2 lines of the eye. Then those lines trace seperately over the support and the knot is completed on the other side, as to isolate this 'joint' in the line from as much load and impacting as possible across the friction buffer of the support.

i think that is a pretty easy and strategic modification; mimicking the longer eye on splices of Sherrill's, of letting the pair of lines of the eye take the loading, hiding and securing the 'joint' in the splice from the severest loading. In blocks i make sure the bushing is on the pin to make sure the eye isn't bent as sharply. If hoisting an MA rig from rescue pulleys etc.; i'd keep the eye large at the laoding point of the pulley by linking the pulley to the rope's eye by 2 carabiners in parallel. i go with the opposing gates as in rescue/mountain pix for security. If using screw lock carabiners i try to finish with down being closed, theorizing that would be easy maximum setting to keep from opening, being least likely to open by spinning up hill etc.

i think Arboplex has cheaper filler fibers polyolefin(sp.?); that don't take heat as well as the higher strength nylon/poyester that make up the rest of the line and may others. These same ones i believe give the line a certain stiffness/feel and break easier leaving a 'rougher' feeling line when handling as witness to them being present. i do appreciate the free strength added bringing the strength up to 6000#; increasing the strength of the line by more than what should be 1 unit of load for our purposes IMLHO.

A 2/1 will only put 1 1/2x as much load on support. Generally if it takes a fancy rig; i need to get about 3 nice loads out of it minimum. Generally i feel like i am catching up to time spent in setup, somewhere in there i think the return for effort starts being appealing. Then there is the learning curve, and taking advantage of situations that don't arise often to harvest to that end.

:alien:
 
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Good points though I would think keeping the knot on the other side of the crotch from the pulley eould be a recipe for getting jammed in a retrievable system..
The knot I use is a doubled bowline as opposed to a double bowline... made by tying a bowline with a long bite.... leaving three loops through which to pin the block... keeping all three roughly the same length will also reduce bend ratio on the pin or bushing...
 
Another thing I've done for short distances is to transfer to the "jin" tree to set and retrive a block.

In transfering over to retriev, just have the rigging rope locked off and use ascenders to traverce (when using 1/2 in rope) or a prussic look
 

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