Quart of Oak

[turnkey4099]

4' x 8' x 16" is a FACE cord or 1/3 of a cord, same as a rick, which is how it's generally sold, by the rick. Three times 16" gives you the 48" or 4 feet deep, 3 rick = a full cord, or a gallon of wood as we now jokingly know it.

Trust me, I'm not making this up. This has been discussed a few times over the last few years in previous threads.

Yes, it has been discussed many times and it still comes down to.

"There ain't no such thing as a legal face cord, rick, pile, load, etc."

Harry K

 

[Tree Machine]

Heh, heh. Tough to argue with that one.

 

[Mtnman4ever]

I know all ther terms but it seems
Most customers want full cords of "seasoned " wood and they have the idea that it will not burn if in has not been season for at lest two years !
fine I'll charge more ,
a But most of my wood customers know that even after 6- 9 month's will dry most wood so it can burn thought it might not be as easy to start .

Besides less terms make it easier to sell


I solve that by not chippping as much and using a smaller saw to cut them into 12 inch pieces and sell hem as kindling .

I m also asked for green cords Not a problem if I have them though I limit w how much. I sell. I need to keep most of it for fall as I make more money off it and that's not a bad thing.
Besides I need a excuse to fire up a saw and cut fire wood I do not sell a maybe a 100 - 200 or so cord overall.

 

[l2edneck]

sling it here for a dollar a piece,the more ya buy the better the price.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[tawilson]

Yes, it has been discussed many times and it still comes down to.

"There ain't no such thing as a legal face cord, rick, pile, load, etc."

Harry K

Wrong.
http://www.agmkt.state.ny.us/WM/WMwood.html

Long as you put the size down, call it what you want.

 

[SRT-Tech]

4' x 8' x 16" is a FACE cord or 1/3 of a cord, same as a rick, which is how it's generally sold, by the rick. Three times 16" gives you the 48" or 4 feet deep, 3 rick = a full cord, or a gallon of wood as we now jokingly know it.

Trust me, I'm not making this up. This has been discussed a few times over the last few years in previous threads.

If you go to supermarket where they have overly priced bundles of slab wood, they're about 16". Nobody 'measures' each pice of wood, and you ony need be within about an inch or so and this is really not hard to achieve. Its all about intent. If your bar is 16" long, you cut pieces roughly as long as your bar, how hard is that?

The only time I 'measure' is when the diameters get really big. On fat vertical spars, I have scribed a mark on the 24" and the 36" bars with a plasma torch, down from the tip, 16". It's a ready gauge. Also, I know the Silky Sugoi, from the tip down to the tightening screw where the blade meets the handle is 16". If I have a fat log on the ground, I'll take a minute to walk the length, Sugoi in hand, and give a pull at 16" intervals so I don't have to guess. You don't use a measuring tape, you use the reference of tools an arborist would normally have at hand. The bigger the diameter of the log, the more likely you are to overestimate, so with fat ones, 'measuring' helps keep your consistency of length.

I don't sell firewood. Quite the opposite, actually. I supply commercial firewood guys and pay them 20 bucks a dumpload to take it away. This relationship has gone on for years now. This is a great deal for the treeguy and certainly no complaints from the firewood guys. For smaller loads, I have a short list of folks from the 'free firewood' thread here at arboristsite who've contacted me and of course, the occasional passerby who stops to ask if he can have the wood. If I have real crap, I have one nearby guy who has one of those monster, water-jacketed boiler stoves. He likes his pieces 32" which is sweet; half as much cutting for the treeguy. As a commercial operator, I rarely have to haul away wood. Just cut it into standard lengths, flush-cut off any stubs. I can cut it a lot faster than I can schlepp it. Cutting, I really enjoy. Moving, lifting, transporting, storing, splitting, delivering and stacking is best left to the professionals. I have other trees to climb and the sooner the big wood is gone, the sooner the treeguy can move on to the next.

oh i know its a face cord, one would be wise to check the regulations in their area pertaining to the sale of firewood.

In canada, the ONLY LEGAL method of selling firewood is by the Cord, not a face cord, not a rick, not a pickup truck load, but a full cord or a half cord. A local firewood dealer was recently nailed with a $2000 fine for violating the Standards and Measurments Act, by advertising firewood for sale by the rick.

 

[turnkey4099]

Wrong.
http://www.agmkt.state.ny.us/WM/WMwood.html

Long as you put the size down, call it what you want.

From the cite:

"What Is A Cord?
Firewood is generally sold by a measurement called a "cord." A cord is equal 128 cubic feet. For example, a stack four feet wide by four feet high by eight feet long is a cord.

You may also see wood advertised by a "face cord" with the length of the pieces. A 24 inch face cord is 24 inches wide by four feet high by eight feet long.

In New York, all firewood sales and advertising must include the three dimensions of the wood, that is length, width, and height, with the wood ranked and well stowed."

Odd, I don't see a 'legal description of a face cord' A legal description would contain something that does not change.

That it is "legal" to sell by the face cord _as long as the three dimensions are specified _ is not a legal description of an unchangeing size, such as "a cord contains 128 cu ft".

I wonder how many other states allow sales that way. Most states that have regulations state that wood must be sold by the full or fractional cord only. Of course it is rarely enforced, usually because someone ?????ed to the weights and measures.

Harry K

 

[Tree Machine]

The dictionary carries the term, at least the Merriam-Webster. It doesn't appear to be a legal term.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it.

 

[turnkey4099]

The dictionary carries the term, at least the Merriam-Webster. It doesn't appear to be a legal term.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it.

Right on! I really don't understand why people, even the ones posting in here, persist in using "face cord" and even 'cord' when they mean 'face cord'. This site is read world wide so to use a term that does not have universal meaning is counterproductive. There have been many threads were someone says 'I have X number of cords' and is then asked does he mean 'face cord' or 'cord'. Usually it is face cord. Maybe it is the 'macho' thing as 'face cord', nebulous as that is, gives a much higher number.

Harry K

 

[Tree Machine]

And maybe they really don't know the difference between a cord and a face cord, Harry.
Well, it's good to get it out in the open and sorted out.

The 'Cord' is an established term, defined and agreed upon as a standard measure for a defined amount of firewood. When ANYTHING is sold or traded there is some quantity, some unit of measure that the selling price can be based upon. For firewood, that standardized unit of measure is the 'cord' as it's not practical to sell it by weight or number of pieces. Other terms are referenced, based on the 'cord', regardless of what the name is, face cord, rick, gallon( )pickup load; people want to know how much they're getting and what they're paying for. Who can blame em?

For (todays) average firewood buyer, a cord is really a lot of wood. 128 cu ft is a lot of space to dedicate if you are just an occasional maker of fire. Most homes are not heated with wood anymore, as central heat and home furnaces are primary, and the fireplace is more for ambiance. It wasn't always like this. Long ago firewood was the primary source of heat in the home, simply due to its availability and economy. If you heated your home exclusively with wood, a cord or two or ten is what you wanted. For today's occasional fireplace fire, a portion of a full cord is more practical, a rick or maybe two. If you need more, you order more. That's the way of today.

I do apologise if I'm overgeneralizing. It really does depend on the individual household. My grandpa, for instance, never had central heat. He had a pot-bellied stove, and it was rather small. He used 12" pieces because they would fit and he liked them split pretty small and he was insistent on white oak. PU Climber questioned who would be crazy enough to measure each piece of wood...? I only know of one. My yearly late-Summer pilgrimages up to northern Michigan to help Gramps bring in wood and get it split and stacked are memories to be cherished, going back to my childhood when he put a Husqvarna Rancher 55 in my hands at the tender and inappropriate age of 9. But, he was a man of the woods his whole life and that's what he thought was right. During the last decade of his life I became an arborist, which pleased him beyond words. We had fun.

 

[rebelman]

Be frank, sell it by the rick. 4x8xwhatever length the customer wants. Isn't it a ****** in England?

 

[tawilson]

Around here if you try to sell by the cord, without explaining what a cord actually is, people will think you are nuts. But, I do keep an eye on the newspaper classified, and most people that sell by the "cord", actually do put the size down: 4'x8'x16". Lets just toss the whole cord thing and sell it by the cubic foot, or liter, or whatever.

 

[Tree Machine]

Gallon....

 

[Husky137]

Around here if you try to sell by the cord, without explaining what a cord actually is, people will think you are nuts. But, I do keep an eye on the newspaper classified, and most people that sell by the "cord", actually do put the size down: 4'x8'x16". Lets just toss the whole cord thing and sell it by the cubic foot, or liter, or whatever.

Massachusetts law requires dealers to sell by the cubic foot. How many gallons would that be?

 

[turnkey4099]

And maybe they really don't know the difference between a cord and a face cord, Harry.
Well, it's good to get it out in the open and sorted out.

The 'Cord' is an established term, defined and agreed upon as a standard measure for a defined amount of firewood. When ANYTHING is sold or traded there is some quantity, some unit of measure that the selling price can be based upon. For firewood, that standardized unit of measure is the 'cord' as it's not practical to sell it by weight or number of pieces. Other terms are referenced, based on the 'cord', regardless of what the name is, face cord, rick, gallon( )pickup load; people want to know how much they're getting and what they're paying for. Who can blame em?

For (todays) average firewood buyer, a cord is really a lot of wood. 128 cu ft is a lot of space to dedicate if you are just an occasional maker of fire. Most homes are not heated with wood anymore, as central heat and home furnaces are primary, and the fireplace is more for ambiance. It wasn't always like this. Long ago firewood was the primary source of heat in the home, simply due to its availability and economy. If you heated your home exclusively with wood, a cord or two or ten is what you wanted. For today's occasional fireplace fire, a portion of a full cord is more practical, a rick or maybe two. If you need more, you order more. That's the way of today.

I do apologise if I'm overgeneralizing. It really does depend on the individual household. My grandpa, for instance, never had central heat. He had a pot-bellied stove, and it was rather small. He used 12" pieces because they would fit and he liked them split pretty small and he was insistent on white oak. PU Climber questioned who would be crazy enough to measure each piece of wood...? I only know of one. My yearly late-Summer pilgrimages up to northern Michigan to help Gramps bring in wood and get it split and stacked are memories to be cherished, going back to my childhood when he put a Husqvarna Rancher 55 in my hands at the tender and inappropriate age of 9. But, he was a man of the woods his whole life and that's what he thought was right. During the last decade of his life I became an arborist, which pleased him beyond words. We had fun.

Nice stack of wood there and it does look split pretty small.

Very good discussion. You make a very good point that a full cord is more than most people want and a 'rick' is more understandable amount to them in that they can picture that amount easier. The problem of selling that way though is that the seller needs to specify just what his 'rick' is if he wants to avoid arguments over the amount.

Of course if the wood sellers had stuck with cords and fractions thereof instead of making up terms the buying public would have been educated and all these discussions would be moot.

Harry K

 

[Sodboa]

Massachusetts law requires dealers to sell by the cubic foot. How many gallons would that be?

Is that a dry gallon or a wet gallon? http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

1 cord (firewood) = 128Cu.Ft. = 957.5 liquid gallons = 822.8 dry gallons