question about back cuts (Moved from homeowner forum)

[2dogs]

That is a gross oversimplification and shows no respect for anyone involved. You weren't there. Kindly refrain from the finger-pointing.

I was hopping to hear what a bottom up IC failure is. It is not mentioned in the fireline handbook or the IRPG or even my old FOG manual. It's not part of the 10 or 18 either. I can't place it from the many ICS classes I have taken over the years. Maybe it got lost in a sand table.

 

[2dogs]

The thirty mile fire was a IC failure,bottom up failure.

Scotty were you in the fire service or maybe a contract faller?

 

[madhatte]

Maybe it got lost in a sand table.

I bet that's it; I take everything back, including the part about everybody's moms.

 

[RandyMac]

The thirty mile fire was a IC failure,bottom up failure.

 

[slowp]

Thanks MissP. I went by the gravesite of one of the young men that was killed. He is buried in Roslyn. He was quite the young man.

Yes, they were all too young to come to such an end.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

The IC bottom up failure is when a Squad boss is not really competent to be in charge of crew,lack fire management training for personnel safety. I was Battalion officer in a small VFD,IC was just starting to becoming the SOP in my area when I retired . The 30 mile had a lot of human errors that lead to death and injury.

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/lessons/documents/Thirtymile_Reports/Thirtymile-Final-Report-2.pdf

 

[slowp]

The IC bottom up failure is when a Squad boss is not really competent to be in charge of crew,lack fire management training for personnel safety. I was Battalion officer in a small VFD,IC was just starting to becoming the SOP in my area when I retired . The 30 mile had a lot of human errors that lead to death and injury.

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/lessons/documents/Thirtymile_Reports/Thirtymile-Final-Report-2.pdf

I've tried to butt out, but you are no way an expert on fire, or falling or anything else. I doubt you even knew what a pulaski was until you googled it.

I bet it was a very very tiny little volunteer fire department, with like ONE member. Or can you name the fire department? Can you back up any of your claims?

Are you also a neurosurgeon? Astronaut? Former President? What else have you done?

 

[Huskyman4k]

Some do, most don't. I spent 7 years in AG, and met maybe three skookum cutters out of hundreds of agency guys. Fortunately the agency put the non-skookum guys where they'll do the least harm- made them managers and specialists.

I met a falling boss once on a fire that had never fell a tree and had never even taken S-212.

That sounds about right, there is an old saying
"Those that cant, Teach. Those that cant teach, teach teachers"

Give them a wide space, they are deadly

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

We had 10 members in the summers then a 6 in the winters. Idanha VFD ,Idanha OR.I was the only ALS medic on the department. The department combined with another after I left. I did logging when the weather would allow and did any work that paid money.Never to old to have multiple job skills.

 

[Slamm]

Holy crap, who let "him" off the chain or out of the cage again??? Is this ever going to end, LOL.

I don't even have to name, names either, LOL.

Get Guido Salvage over here to clear this up, he likes his job, LOL.

Sam

 

[Slamm]

HillbillyRN,

You look like you were a bull rider, pretty tough character you are. Where did you ride bulls at, I swear, one of my buddies said they saw you years ago on a bull, but they can't remember where. Tell us about those days.

Thanks,

Sam

 

[madhatte]

I'm annoyed enough right now that my good manners are a thin veneer. HBRN, I've read the reports, the book, and the training modules. I know the story as well as anybody who wasn't there can reasonably be expected to. I've made mistakes on the fireline, both as IC and as crew member. Fortunately, nobody has ever been hurt on my watch, and I will do everything within my power to keep it that way. There are places and times for reductionism, such as college freshman philosophy classes. Fire people are keenly aware of what goes on elsewhere in the fire world. We learn from each other. We don't blithely condemn each other via armchair quarterbacking a decade after the fact. At the very least, you could express a bit of empathy for those involved in the incident, especially the survivors. The dead don't care about your assessment. I can't form a coherent paragraph. Now look what you've done.

 

[2dogs]

We had 10 members in the summers then a 6 in the winters. Idanha VFD ,Idanha OR.I was the only ALS medic on the department. The department combined with another after I left. I did logging when the weather would allow and did any work that paid money.Never to old to have multiple job skills.

That's cool, you were a Battalion Chief/paramedic. First one I've heard of. In California there is no way one paramedic works by himself. The hospital and the County get together and administer the paramedic program. Then the ambulance company and the fire departments work together and put the local protocols into play. Of course there is an ample paperwork trail. The ambulance company evaluates all new FD and ambulance hires.

Paramedic school must be around $20,000.00 and 9 months time. How did you pay for medic school?

 

[Slamm]

Paramedic school must be around $20,000.00 and 9 months time. How did you pay for medic school?

I know, I know, he logged veneer walnuts at 14,000ft elevation on the West Coast, with a MAC, back when men were men. He also made side money by being an authority and writing technical booklets on proper felling cuts, bucking cuts and best of all, Bonus videos on Assessing Hazard Trees and Limbing'em.

Then I heard he received donations from members of another forum to just leave, because their moderators wouldn't just simple bann him, heard he made almost $5,023, from that alone.

Thats how he made the money for Paramedic School.

Sam

 

[2dogs]

I know, I know, he logged veneer walnuts at 14,000ft elevation on the West Coast, with a MAC, back when men were men. He also made side money by being an authority and writing technical booklets on proper felling cuts, bucking cuts and best of all, Bonus videos on Assessing Hazard Trees and Limbing'em.

Then I heard he received donations from members of another forum to just leave, because their moderators wouldn't just simple bann him, heard he made almost $5,023, from that alone.

Thats how he made the money for Paramedic School.

Sam

Both dogs and my daughter are wondering why I'm laughing so hard. Daughter is staring at me.

 

[paccity]

heell i'll leave for 5 grand. for a littlewhile.

 

[Slamm]

heell i'll leave for 5 grand. for a littlewhile.

I heard the other forum members not only offered him the $5,023, but they also got an attorney and that there was a pretty good contract involved. Little did they know that Hillbillyredneck, had already passed the BAR years ago and easily got around the fine print of that contract, and has begun assulting their inteligence once again.

Sam

 

[madhatte]

I am still trying to decide if he's the world's greatest troll. Note that he has broken no forum rules, to the best of my recollection. It would be very hard to be that oblivious on accident. Even "pathological" would be a hollow excuse. This crap HAS to be deliberate.

 

[slowp]

Perhaps he is a poor relation of Buckaroo Banzai.

Adventurer/surgeon/rock musician Buckaroo Banzai and his band of men, the Hong Kong Cavaliers, take on evil alien invaders from the 8th dimension

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

That's cool, you were a Battalion Chief/paramedic. First one I've heard of. In California there is no way one paramedic works by himself. The hospital and the County get together and administer the paramedic program. Then the ambulance company and the fire departments work together and put the local protocols into play. Of course there is an ample paperwork trail. The ambulance company evaluates all new FD and ambulance hires.
Paramedic school must be around $20,000.00 and 9 months time. How did you pay for medic school?

We were lucky in the fact we were a timber town, The local mill and locals donated the money:smile2: Can you say night school. I was working with the local hospital and the local medical clinic.I was needed because of the 1 hour drive to the local hospital. Seen a enough to know it would have been nice to have a lot more medic 3's aka Paramedic's. My position in the department was basically the head of the 4 Medic 1's and keep the piece of krap ambulance road worthy,had a 2k budget for supplies and fuel,had to donate tires every year,surplus crummy tires were free from a couple local logging company's.Not a job for the faint heart types,had to drive 80 plus in winter to reach the end of the district boundaries.Rural VFD's are non conformers for sure,Our chief was a #### drunk fool. He was kicked off the department for wrecking the only pumper that was useable for fire suppression, he was snooker badly