Question about bar substitution

[jdentyne]

I do a lot of cutting here on the farm in heavy brush. I prefer to use a short bar for this, 14" being my favorite. But I also like more horsepower and a better quality/more reliable saw than the smaller, lightweight ones sold with short bars Can you replace the 18 or 20 inch bar on a better saw (Husky, for example) with a 14" bar? Have any of you done this? Are there any problems with matching the bar to the saw?

Thanks for any info or advice.

 

[Mad Professor]

I think most of the 50cc+ saws the smallest bars you'll find are 16".

I could be wrong.

 

[irhunter]

I think these are 13" bars which will fit small-pro Huskys:

https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/p...[3].name=obsolete&fixedFilters[3].value=false

 

[ericm979]

Most consumer saws are sold with as long a bar as they can take because people new to saws buy them by bar length and think longer is better. But we all know it's not the size that's important, it's how you use it.

I had one saw shop sales guy warn me when I bought an 18" bar for a MS362 that the short chain would let the saw rev up too fast and destroy the engine.

I hate to sound like a shill for them but Bailey's saw selector (while a much slower and harder to use interface than their old one) is great for letting you see what sort of bars are available for a given saw.

 

[cookies]

Keep in mind a shorter bar will generate a more powerful kickback

 

[Captain Bruce]

I do a lot of cutting here on the farm in heavy brush. I prefer to use a short bar for this, 14" being my favorite. But I also like more horsepower and a better quality/more reliable saw than the smaller, lightweight ones sold with short bars Can you replace the 18 or 20 inch bar on a better saw (Husky, for example) with a 14" bar? Have any of you done this? Are there any problems with matching the bar to the saw?

Thanks for any info or advice.

Go to Oregon's site, or Husqvarnas. They both have fitment charts. The model determines the bar mount....and all bars available for sale are right there. If you vague question has to do with IE a 455 Rancher, not only can you not go smaller without buying another chainsaw, the purpose is being ignored. Good Luck.

 

[irhunter]

If you vague question has to do with IE a 455 Rancher, not only can you not go smaller without buying another chainsaw, the purpose is being ignored. Good Luck.

Well,

1. There are, in fact, >16" bars which will fit a 455.
2. "Purpose"???? I have a friend who runs a 16" bar on a MS460...is that running against its purpose too?

Roy

 

[fields_mj]

Agreed. You can always go smaller than what the saw is normally sold with assuming you are dealing with the bigger name brands (ie Husqvarna, Stihl, Echo, Dolmar, Jred, ect) . Which bar you need depends on what style of mount your powerhead takes. For instance, all of my Stihl saws (024, 026, 036, 064, 066) use a bar with a DO25 mount. So I can take a 16" bar and chain off of my 024 and put it on my 066 and run it just fine. The oppisite isn't true only because my 024 doesn't have enough power to pull a 42" bar, and its oil pump is too small to lubricate the chain adequately. Now, if you're running a Poulan, Craftsman, or some other generic saw brand, all bets are off. If you are planning on buying a new saw just tell the dealership what length bar and chain you want on it and they will set it up that way at no charge.
If they won't, take your business somewhere else because they don't know squat about a chainsaw and won't be able to provide you with any support after the sale anyway.

If you are wanting to swap over a saw you already own, or looking to buy a used saw that you would need to change, the easiest thing is probably going to be to contact Baileys and ask them for help. The folks I've talked to there in the past were MORE than competent to help you out and get you exactly what you need. You could also go to a dealership and they will help you, but I wouldn't recommend working with a dealership on a used saw unless you absolutely know what you are doing. Some are good, great even. Others don't know their head from a literal hole in the ground and only want to sell you a new saw. I literally had a local Stihl dealership tell me my 036 was trash and needed replaced because the spark plug was bad.

If you're wanting to learn more about this subject so that you understand what you are actually buying and why, let us know and we will walk you through it. It can be a little confusing at first, but once you understand chain pitch, gauge, and the bar mount, and the corresponding parts of the saw that those things impact, you'll be good to go.

 

[jdentyne]

Thank you for the very informative reply. Good infofmation that I can use.

 

[computeruser]

Yes yes yes.

I cut a ton of invasives (buckthorn, honeysuckle, etc) and these are often brushy tasks. Having less bar to deal with makes life easier. Having a bigger brushcutter (Echo SRM-410U) with a 9" Oregon Maxi blade makes life even easier still!



I run 13" Oregon .325 narrow kerf bars with standard-kerf 20-series Oregon chain for this work. It is a solid setup. This bar/chain setup gets run on 238se, 42, 346xp, ported 346xpg, and ported 543xp. Depending on your preference, what powerhead you're using, and what you're cutting, you may wish to gear up to an 8t rim from the usual 7t for some extra chain speed. I did this with the ported 346xpg but left the others 7t, since the buckthorn stuff is actually pretty darned hard as far as woods go.



The argument about bar length runs a couple different ways. Some folks like longer bars for reach, others like shorter and are willing to bend or take a knee for certain cuts, and accept that falling larger trees will require somewhat different cutting technique. Myself, I've tried both over the years and settled on shorter > longer for my cutting. Even ported 70cc saws wear 16" bars here, and the 80cc wears 20" most of the time, except the rare instance where the 28" actually is needed.

For our firewood cutting this year, where we are blocking up 8-22" hardwood logs to 16" lengths, we have been primarily using a ported 5100sh/16", MS400/16", 572/16", and 592/20". I cannot imagine doing this work with, say, a 455 Rancher and 20" bar, or some other more common homeowner type powerhead!

 

[jdentyne]

I want to thank everyone who has responded to my question, especially Fields_mj and computeruser. You have given me much good information that I will use in getting another saw.

I don't have the depth of knowledge about saws that you on this forum have, but I'm not a newby to them or their use. I'm older than dirt and farmed for decades and have owned more chainsaws than I can remember. With them, though, I just bought off the shelf and used them until they wore out before get another. There wasn't much thought given to bar length although I have always tended toward favoring shorter ones. In the last few years though, we have been totally covered up with this invasive bush honeysuckle. On these steep Kentucky hills, there are places that pretty much require taking it out by hand, and the thickets formed with branches twisted together, etc. require a lot of bending, stooping, and fighting your way in to cut. In my mind, a shorter bar is far safer in this situation. I had a small Stihl O10AV that I've totally worn out cutting the honeysuckle, so I'm looking for a good replacement. That is why my original question.

Thank everyone for your responses. This is a great site and forum.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

As an arborist, I just look at that pic and wonder why sling around so much saw for so little bar?

 

[kenmbz]

I use a brushcutter and/or pole saw on honey suckle. Can't imagine doing large areas with any chainsaw.

 

[ericm979]

In thick brush I make some cuts and then pull the cut material out of the way and stack it before I can make more cuts. Otherwise its in the way. A chainsaw is easier to do that with than a brush cutter. Also at least with my brush cutter anything over about 1" diameter is a lot of work to cut. A saw gets through it much better. Some of my brush can be 3-4" diameter.

A while back I got a small Echo gas saw for brush. It's super easy to start, which is good because I stop the engine when I am stacking as I don't like to leave engines idling, especially two strokes. The Echo pulls really easily and lights up with one pull, but it's still an extra motion that I have to do a lot. The next brush saw will probably be a battery saw.

 

[computeruser]

In years past, I tried smaller powerheads for this work. They were great in the little stuff 1-2”, but rapidly slowed down in 4-6-8” stuff. Tried Echo 3000, 330, 3450; Stihl 020, 200t; Husqvarna 339xp, all with 14” 3/8”LP. They were great in the autumn olive and honeysuckle, but got slower than I wanted in the buckthorn.

Best saws for this work have been 238/242 Husqvarna family, the 543xp (ported), Stihl 241, and the one I let get away, the Shindaiwa 360 and 377 (I had a hybrid - 377 power on lighter 360 chassis).

To somewhat go astray here, I can say that even on slopes, the brushcutter can be a helpful tool. 3-4” material is no trouble with the 43cc machine and 9” Maxi, and you can even manage surprisingly well in softer wood (honeysuckle, rather than buckthorn) with a 26cc machine and 8” blade (I run a Stihl 8” circular saw brush blade). I’ll probably get one of the 55cc clearing saws before too long, just because I want to see what more it can do than the 43cc unit does.

Since my daily driver is a sports car and cannot fit the 43cc brushcutter, I set up an older Echo SRM 260 (26cc trimmer) I had as the PAS attachment convertible version by buying a used upper shaft and tube. This lets me break down the trimmer to fit in that car. It works pretty well. It has the standard loop handle, not bike bar style, so you have to rely on the harness to keep it from being able to bite you. Definitely not OSHA approved. But super light and on softer wood like honeysuckle, it is a breeze to use on steep, sandy streambanks for invasive removal. The upper flex drive shaft seems to be the fuse, so I carry a spare.

 

[fields_mj]

As an arborist, I just look at that pic and wonder why sling around so much saw for so little bar?

When you're bucking 20" rounds and under, there's absolutely no benefit to a 20" or 24" bar. Not long enough to keep you from bending over, and the extra bar and chain is just eating HP and Torque that could otherwise be used to make bigger chips faster. Run a bigger rim with shorter rakers

Admittedly, if I were an arborist, I wouldn't really care about how fast I could buck firewood. I'd care about how much weight I had to carry with me while climbing around in the tree all day. No need to carry around an extra 4 lbs of power head to run a 16" bar up in the tree.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

When you're bucking 20" rounds and under, there's absolutely no benefit to a 20" or 24" bar. Not long enough to keep you from bending over, and the extra bar and chain is just eating HP and Torque that could otherwise be used to make bigger chips faster. Run a bigger rim with shorter rakers 



Admittedly, if I were an arborist, I wouldn't really care about how fast I could buck firewood. I'd care about how much weight I had to carry with me while climbing around in the tree all day. No need to carry around an extra 4 lbs of power head to run a 16" bar up in the tree.
Newsflash, arborists buck plenty of firewood.

 

[fields_mj]

I want to thank everyone who has responded to my question, especially Fields_mj and computeruser. You have given me much good information that I will use in getting another saw.

I don't have the depth of knowledge about saws that you on this forum have, but I'm not a newby to them or their use. I'm older than dirt and farmed for decades and have owned more chainsaws than I can remember. With them, though, I just bought off the shelf and used them until they wore out before get another. There wasn't much thought given to bar length although I have always tended toward favoring shorter ones. In the last few years though, we have been totally covered up with this invasive bush honeysuckle. On these steep Kentucky hills, there are places that pretty much require taking it out by hand, and the thickets formed with branches twisted together, etc. require a lot of bending, stooping, and fighting your way in to cut. In my mind, a shorter bar is far safer in this situation. I had a small Stihl O10AV that I've totally worn out cutting the honeysuckle, so I'm looking for a good replacement. That is why my original question.

Thank everyone for your responses. This is a great site and forum.

I'm likely going to be dealing with some honeysuckle in the spring. Anyone tried using a pole saw? I'm thinking it would allow me to stick the little power head up under the brush and cut it off at the stump without having to trim the rest of it back to gain access. Any thoughts on whether or not this would be effective?

 

[fields_mj]

I didn't say that arborists don't buck firewood. Its just a smaller portion of the overall work that needs to be done. Firewood cutters are often cutting in the woods where we can just leave the tops, and we sure as heck don't need to climb up in the tree and take anything down limb by limb. For us, a saw that bucks a little faster makes a noticeable difference in either how much work we get done in a day, or how worn out we are, or both. I'm just saying that for an arborist, there are more things to be considered than just how fast a saw can cut cookies.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I didn't say that arborists don't buck firewood. Its just a smaller portion of the overall work that needs to be done. Firewood cutters are often cutting in the woods where we can just leave the tops, and we sure as heck don't need to climb up in the tree and take anything down limb by limb. For us, a saw that bucks a little faster makes a noticeable difference in either how much work we get done in a day, or how worn out we are, or both. I'm just saying that for an arborist, there are more things to be considered than just how fast a saw can cut cookies.


No, we just grab a bigger saw