Question about bar substitution

[GrizG]

My Stihl Fairy and others have given me new bars and chains and a few lightly used bars. One day I was given 5 new chains... 2 @ .325 .063 and 3 @ 3/8 .050... both for 20" bars which by coincidence I was also given... The .325 bar was new in the box and the 3/8 slightly used. I've been running a free 20" B&C combo on my MS661 while dismantling a large fallen oak tree. Yes I have to roll the saw over the top of the bar to cut the far side... However, due to the tree's trunk and limb structure, and how and where it lay, the short bar has been really handy even it I cannot through cut with a straight cut. I could have a 25" or 36" bar on that saw but those would have been difficult to manipulate in the tangled mess on the steep and loose embankment (conditions that gave me flash backs to 2019 when I broke my ankle in similar conditions). I could have run that B&C combo on my MS461 too but the 661 needs some more break-in hours before I mill, or buck even bigger trees.

For cutting brush and small limbs an MS170 with the safest chain Stihl makes on a 16" bar is my go too combo. This as the safety chain doesn't grab and whip around the small diameter stuff the way a bigger Rapid Super chain does.

I've not had good experiences trying to cut saplings off close to the ground with my HT131 pole saw. It's hit the dirt too many times as it's unwieldy... waste too much time sharpening or swapping chains.

For general cutting an 18" bar on an MS261 and a 25" bar on an MS461 have served me well.

 

[kenmbz]

I use pole saw on anything I can't reach with the brush cutter.
Brushcutter on honeysuckle, multflora rose, faux grape vine and berry vines.
Some autumn olive gets to 4", pole saw to get top trimmed and BC to take down.
It will try to regrow, just knock it down when it starts in the spring and that gets most of it cleared.

I don't usually take out the saw until something is bigger than 4-5" and even then still use Polesaw.

 

[sean donato]

Given the examples of what guys are running for bar length has been quite humorous. 30-50cc saws running 14-16" bars is perfectly normal. Although I rarely pick up a saw that small, normally is a 20" on a 60-70cc saw, 24" if it's needed then jump to a 90+cc saw for everything else. I happen to have a nice scare on my left leg from a ms180c with a 14" bar from being stupid cutting bamboo at ground level, and I'll tell you straight off a pole saw or brush cutter would have been a better choice so I could have paid better attention to what was stuck in the top of the bamboo. Chainsaws will get you don't matter what size bar is on them. I absolutely hate Bush whacking with them.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Generally speaking when I see a guy saying he needs a bigger powerhead for a smaller bar I wonder about his sharpening skills and overall saw skills, just sayin...

 

[GrizG]

Generally speaking when I see a guy saying he needs a bigger powerhead for a smaller bar I wonder about his sharpening skills and overall saw skills, just sayin...

I tend to think that too... especially after seeing what shows up at the saw shop I frequent and what showed up at the GOL1 class I hosted...

With an eye on not allowing another one of those types to exist, I spent about 3 1/2 hours today teaching my son how chains cut, how to hand file them (including how to hold and use the file, and how to clean swarf from the file), how to use the depth gauge guide, how to clean the bar, how to lube the cage bearing, chain tensioning, etc. While he was here he successfully sharpened 8 chains. By the time he got to the last one he was much quicker and deliberate about the task. This will not only help him personally but it will help him service the customers that come in to his job to buy Stihl and Husky saws and accessories. It was nice to see how he picked it up quickly and ran with it...

On another note, I had fun running a 20" bar on my MS661 the other day... with a well sharpened chain!

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Ok. I'm going to say it once and tab out. If you look at the intro to this thread, it is a chance for homeowners to ask pros for advice... so here goes... learn how to sharpen a chain and keep it out of the dirt... until you do that it doesn't matter what saw you are running with which length bar, or if it has a muffler mod, or whatever. A saw is nothing more than a motor that runs a chain that cuts wood.. that's it. Give me an old poulan and a file, and I will get it done. Yall make this so complicated...

 

[Brushwacker]

When you're bucking 20" rounds and under, there's absolutely no benefit to a 20" or 24" bar. Not long enough to keep you from bending over, and the extra bar and chain is just eating HP and Torque that could otherwise be used to make bigger chips faster. Run a bigger rim with shorter rakers

A 24inch bar bucking wood on the ground I can stand straight up without bending my back or knees any to very little, make my cut with my elbows mostly extended and fairly relaxed, unless the wood is very small most the weight of the saw is being held in the cut most the time it's in my hands. A 20in bar on some saws feels similar. 18in and shorter has my back and knees bending most the time bucking on the ground. Doing 16inch firewood a couple hours or more I don't find short bars making it easier on back and knees. 20 to 24inch feel better most the day and afterwards for my body parts. When i have to hold the saw up and have the weight of the saw on my arms mostly such as wood 5ish inches and smaller diameter in the air then a shorter bar and lighter weight makes it easier .

 

[Brushwacker]

8

Admittedly, if I were an arborist, I wouldn't really care about how fast I could buck firewood. I'd care about how much weight I had to carry with me while climbing around in the tree all day. No need to carry around an extra 4 lbs of power head to run a 16" bar up in the tree.

100% agree

 

[GrizG]

A 24inch bar bucking wood on the ground I can stand straight up without bending my back or knees any to very little, make my cut with my elbows mostly extended and fairly relaxed, unless the wood is very small most the weight of the saw is being held in the cut most the time it's in my hands. A 20in bar on some saws feels similar. 18in and shorter has my back and knees bending most the time bucking on the ground. Doing 16inch firewood a couple hours or more I don't find short bars making it easier on back and knees. 20 to 24inch feel better most the day and afterwards for my body parts. When i have to hold the saw up and have the weight of the saw on my arms mostly such as wood 5ish inches and smaller diameter in the air then a shorter bar and lighter weight makes it easier .

This brings up a variable that is seldom mentioned... Namely the physical attributes of the sawyer (e.g., height, arm length, torso length vs. leg length). Those attributes have a significant influence on what bar length is most comfortable under various conditions. When my cutter partner, all 5' 6" of him, has my MS461 with a 25" bar in his hands it's really too long for most tasks whereas for me it's about perfect.. The guy has been a national top 10 triathlete in his age bracket for about 40 years and is strong and agile... but his size makes that saw and bar combo unwieldy for general use. On the other hand, an arborist friend of mine stands about 6' 4" and it's on the short side.

Another variable is where you are cutting. Standing on a nice flat hazard free lawn is a whole different ball game compared to working in a tangled mess on a steep loose embankment... During a recent storm damage clean up of a large oak on a rail trail a 20" bar on my 661 was appropriate... Though I had to roll the saw over the top to cut the far side with that bar I didn't have the elbow room or footing to use a longer bar.

Perhaps adding in descriptions of these two things to discussions like this would help folks make better decisions?

In a fantasy world, I could see a nice reference chart coming out of it--created by someone with time on their hands and analysis skills with input from all interested--with height, arm length, saw/bar length combos, site conditions, size ranges of wood that would allow a user to pick the "perfect" configuration. Me personally, I lack the former... I'm dealing with a couple recent pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities in my city. Two in 10 days in this small city has created a woke society and I'm hearing all kinds of stories and suggestions in my role... it's a long row to hoe.

 

[fields_mj]

A 24inch bar bucking wood on the ground I can stand straight up without bending my back or knees any to very little, make my cut with my elbows mostly extended and fairly relaxed, unless the wood is very small most the weight of the saw is being held in the cut most the time it's in my hands. A 20in bar on some saws feels similar. 18in and shorter has my back and knees bending most the time bucking on the ground. Doing 16inch firewood a couple hours or more I don't find short bars making it easier on back and knees. 20 to 24inch feel better most the day and afterwards for my body parts. When i have to hold the saw up and have the weight of the saw on my arms mostly such as wood 5ish inches and smaller diameter in the air then a shorter bar and lighter weight makes it easier .

A 24" bar isn't long enough to work that way for me. I need a 28" bar to do that.

 

[fields_mj]

In a fantasy world, I could see a nice reference chart coming out of it--created by someone with time on their hands and analysis skills with input from all interested--with height, arm length, saw/bar length combos, site conditions, size ranges of wood that would allow a user to pick the "perfect" configuration. Me personally, I lack the former... I'm dealing with a couple recent pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities in my city. Two in 10 days in this small city has created a woke society and I'm hearing all kinds of stories and suggestions in my role... it's a long row to hoe.

No way most of us would end up agreeing with what ever ended up on a chart like that....

Sucks to hear about those fatalities. No rules/laws anyone can make will ever be enough to make people pay more attention to what they are doing when they are operating heavy equipment (my term for being behind the wheel). Sadly ironic. Most of the people screaming for action are the same ones who believe they are "good enough drivers" to be multi tasking while driving.