Question about Woods Porting?

[pwoller]

I think you should run a good ported saw and see if you still feel the same way. Excelent point on keeping a sharp chain, but a sharp chain just compounds the gains of a ported saw.

I have showed up at a few wood cutting days with what I would call strong ported work saws and square ground work chain and been cutting easily 3 to 4 times faster than equal cc saws that were bone stock with hand filed round chain, the look on a guys face when even his 90 or 100 cc monster saw gets out cut bad by a little 50-60 cc ported saw is priceless.

It is easy for someone to have $10,000 plus tied up in tools to port saws, just a simple lathe, mill, decent welder, grinder and hand tools and unless they are just copycat or guess porting some design software.

At $90 a saw it would take over a 100 saws just to pay the tools not to mention any wage, hydro, taxes, consumables, repair or upgrades for the tools.

Sure it's possible to give a saw a little port work in a couple hours and get some decent gains, thats fine if a guy drops of a good running saw and comes back to pick it up later.

In the real world what goes into a good ported saw?

first off it gets shipped most times requiring trips to pick things up, time to unpack, refuel. A good 50% of the time saws have issues to start and work and adjustment just to get them running right in the first place. SOme times pistons, rings, carb kits or other parts need replacing.

Then there is the design, for basic work to get modest gains with a bit of experience yes there are things that can be done to get gains but to get the most out of each saw I don't see much option but to use some computer modeling. I guess the option is the try and see method and there have been many dust ups here on the net about it... a builder sends one good saw then one dog, why? because the builder is mostly guessing and trying different things on peoples saws. To model a saw it takes a couple hours work to do the measuring and a few more working out the design. Over time a data base of desings can be put together and it becomes easier to develop porting designs for simmilar saw models.

Then there is the work, grinders don't last forever and cutters, sanding drums and polishing wheels far less all costing money to replace. Making dozens of jigs for holding all sorts of pistons and cylinders takes time and lacking those jigs truing parts on a lathe takes more time yet.

I know many guys don't touch carbs in port jobs, but if the fuel and flow demmands of the engine are modified then the carb will not provide the ideal mixture. Plain and simple gains are had by doing work to the carb and intake tract. Add another hour or so to the job.

If some caluclations and computer work are done final compression can be worked out pretty close, if not most times the saw needs to go together and come back apart a few times to get the compression and squish in range.

Once it is all together then it needs to be set back up and to do a good job likely ran for a tank of fuel or two to settle the rings and make sure everything is right.

Drain it all out, purge the gas tank, clean the saw, pack it back up many times finding a new box to replace the original shipping box and a trip to the post office/shipper.

The time involved will easily eat up a full day plus. $20-$25 an hour for skilled labour in a shop is cheap, likely too cheap.

The menu is there for everybody to pick from, you can order a hamburger or a steak. Hamburgers are good sometimes, steaks are better but cost more... Just don't try to sell me a "hamburger" as "steak on a bun" at twice the price.

Great post that about sums it up.

 

[CHEVYTOWN13]

Chevytown I have a ? Is that the jug off the 5100? If so were are the ring ends? The reason I'm asking is I was worried I pulled my transfers too close on my second port job too far.I can't get them that far without ring ends going in them.Ithought I was being conservative and I guess I am.lol.I'm brand new to modding. Thanks to you "internet porters" I've learned alot I wanted to know for years.

Yeah brother tatt, it's a jug off the 5100. I went very wide, so you're probably good to go. The pin is in the middle on the intake side. This saw has been run very hard and I've never had a problem.

Show a picture of your transfers if you can.

 

[Mastermind]

Where did all the naysayers go???

 

[Cantdog]

Where did all the naysayers go???

I guess they finally got tired of:deadhorse: LOLOLOL!!!

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

i think Timberwolf shut us all up!!

 

[ta2guy]

Chevytown.
Can't post pics right now camera on one side of county(work) saws on other(home).I don't want to highjack thread either.Saw is on back burner.It's an 026.After I fired it up ran and it a bit,Iwent to do a couple test cuts and it wouldn't tune.It would four stroke real nice then lean scream.Long story short :bad crank bearing on clutch side.Learning experience.I shoulda checked it better.There was a reason it's been in the basement for 8-10 years just couldn't remember what it was.
My transfers are a little sloppy.I dinged the exhaust side on one so I had to smooth it out and match the other side to it.On the intake side they are very conservative.Just smoothed out a little compared to yours.Didn't do anything to the lowers.I really just wanted to see if I could hop one up a little but I think I'm getting hooked.

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

i can't wait till i know enough to start messin with my saws!

 

[CHEVYTOWN13]

aka timberpup

i think Timberwolf shut us all up!!

Tell that to Tom and Dennis:greenchainsaw:

 

[CHEVYTOWN13]

Chevytown.
Can't post pics right now camera on one side of county(work) saws on other(home).I don't want to highjack thread either.Saw is on back burner.It's an 026.After I fired it up ran and it a bit,Iwent to do a couple test cuts and it wouldn't tune.It would four stroke real nice then lean scream.Long story short :bad crank bearing on clutch side.Learning experience.I shoulda checked it better.There was a reason it's been in the basement for 8-10 years just couldn't remember what it was.
My transfers are a little sloppy.I dinged the exhaust side on one so I had to smooth it out and match the other side to it.On the intake side they are very conservative.Just smoothed out a little compared to yours.Didn't do anything to the lowers.I really just wanted to see if I could hop one up a little but I think I'm getting hooked.

I've only gotten to know Dolmar and Husq. I've never seen inside a stihl other than Bounty's 660 exhaust cylinder port. I think the 260 has two rings, but there are others more qualified to answer your 260 questions

That CAD you got is going to get FULL BLOWN.

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

Tell that to Tom and Dennis:greenchainsaw:

i'm but a lowly newb, i don't get it. i reckon if i read enough i will eh?

 

[blsnelling]

i think Timberwolf shut us all up!!

Tell that to Tom and Dennis:greenchainsaw:

Never seen their work. We've all seen Brian's, and know it's top notch. He sets the bar mighty high.

 

[Mastermind]

Never seen their work. We've all seen Brian's, and know it's top notch. He sets the bar mighty high.

There's a lot of guys who do good work around here. I've learned sooo much from all of you "internet porters". lol

 

[CHEVYTOWN13]

Remember those days you spent at RS

Never seen their work.

I don't think it matters in your case:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Andyshine77]

I've never seen inside any of D&D's work, but I've ran a few saws from them, and I wouldn't call them ported. They did run fine, but I wouldn't say they were stronger than a muffler modded saw IMHO. I'm not trying to down them but $90.00 sounds about right for what they do. I don't see how you could port a saw in a few minutes as somewone looked over your shoulder, it takes longer than that to degree a saw, at least it takes me longer lol.

 

[pwoller]

I've never seen inside any of D&D's work, but I've ran a few saws from them, and I wouldn't call them ported. They did run fine, but I wouldn't say they were stronger than a muffler modded saw IMHO. I'm not trying to down them but $90.00 sounds about right for what they do. I don't see how you could port a saw in a few minutes as somewone looked over your shoulder, it takes longer than that to degree a saw, at least it takes me longer lol.

I'll play along for the good of the debate. So that we have some hard evidence of the work D and D does, I will be willing to send my saw to you or anyone else with equal modding skills. You can test it, inspect it, and report back. If you think you can improve the woods port they did, do it and retest it. That will pretty much end this discussion dont you think? Oh and I'll need my saw back before October.

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

I'll play along for the good of the debate. So that we have some hard evidence of the work D and D does, I will be willing to send my saw to you or anyone else with equal modding skills. You can test it, inspect it, and report back. If you think you can improve the woods port they did, do it and retest it. That will pretty much end this discussion dont you think? Oh and I'll need my saw back before October.

i think that is a hell of an idea!! any takers?

oh and i'm sure the port work that may be performed won't be free?

 

[AUSSIE1]

i think that is a hell of an idea!! any takers?

oh and i'm sure the port work that may be performed won't be free?

Why should it be free?

Just pop the cyl and take photo's of the cyl and muffler and note of how they are sealing the base if you feel the need.

 

[Andyshine77]

I'll play along for the good of the debate. So that we have some hard evidence of the work D and D does, I will be willing to send my saw to you or anyone else with equal modding skills. You can test it, inspect it, and report back. If you think you can improve the woods port they did, do it and retest it. That will pretty much end this discussion dont you think? Oh and I'll need my saw back before October.

I'll run the saw and compare it to the modded saws I have "with video" but I won't do any work to the saw.

Like Al said a few pics would save everyone a lot of hassle. What say you?

 

[blsnelling]

What saw are we discussing here?

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

LOL, thats a good question!!