Question for skidsteer/diesel eng. gurus

[LabLuvR]

I'm considering buying a Cat skidsteer with around 80hp to run a brush mulching head on as part of a new landclearing business. Yesterday while talking to a Cat sales rep he cautioned me about using the Cat skidsteer mainly as a mulching tool. He claimed that the RPM's needed to run the head would wear the machine out prematurely if the machine was used day in and day out specifically with the mulching head. It was the first I've heard of this and know many guys who run the skidsteers with mulching heads. Now how many hours their machines run soley with the head I don't know. The rep mentioned some possible problems around 1,000 hours may develop?????

The odd thing is Cat sells a head for the skidsteer. Why would they do that or not have some cautions in their literature if it was/is a problem? Was the salesguy trying to sell me up to a dedicated machine or was their some substantial truth to what he was saying? Thanks for your input!!!!!!

 

[jomoco]

Sounds like a second or third opinion is in order to say the least!

jomoco

 

[sawinredneck]

I call B S on that one!!!!!!!!!!!!! I worked for a heavy equipment dealer that sold Bobcats as a mechanic, and we always had to lecture the owners about running a partial throttle. The Kubota and Perkins Deisels will wear sooner at part throttle than at full throttle. Lugging the motor puts undue stress on the pistions increasing side skirt wear, leading to ring wear, leading to blowby........ etc. 80hp is a LOT of motor in a skidsteer, I can't see that thing having a problem running ANYTHING you want to hook up to it!!! Call another dealer.
Andy

 

[BruceL]

Cat 287B

We have sold and rented the 287 and Bobcat T300. The T300 walks all over the Cat when using a high flow mower head. It really shows up in hilly terrain. We also see double the track life on the Bobcats (1300 vs 600 hours) and at a lower cost when it is replaced.

Try a Bobcat out before buying the Cat.

 

[BostonBull]

We have sold and rented the 287 and Bobcat T300. The T300 walks all over the Cat when using a high flow mower head. It really shows up in hilly terrain. We also see double the track life on the Bobcats (1300 vs 600 hours) and at a lower cost when it is replaced.

Try a Bobcat out before buying the Cat.

We have the T300 and it is great with the mower we use on it. I would give the thms up to it.

 

[JohnH]

I say look into the Rayco CL85. We have tried ASV,bobcat, gehl the Rayco has held up the best so far. The bobcat and ASV run a close second.

 

[LabLuvR]

Yea, I intend to look at the Bobcat and other brands. The sales rep said regardless of brand, the mulch head at required rpm's(2100-2300 I believe) would put a lot of stress and wear on the engine and hydraulics. His statement seemed odd to me, but wanted to check with others whose knowledge level is much deeper than mine.

 

[Curbside]

I run a Fecon Cutter head on a T-300 Kseires highflow. Their is no doubt that the machine is working hard when your cutting especially in larger diameter material but that is what the machine is meant to do. You will probably wear the machine out sooner then if you used it as a glorified wheel barrel but then that's why you charge the appropriate rates to account for that. Personally I think running concrete hammer is harder on the machine overall than a mower head. Eventually you will blow hoses and eventually you will wear out a pump but by that time you should be ready to upgrade to the next machine.

Personally I buy my T-300s with the longest warranty possible and then trade them off before the warranty expires.

The T-300 is a very nice compact mower and is quite amazing how well it functions. Of course usually once you start mowing you always want bigger and badder machines.

 

[JohnH]

I run a Fecon Cutter head on a T-300 Kseires highflow. Their is no doubt that the machine is working hard when your cutting especially in larger diameter material but that is what the machine is meant to do. You will probably wear the machine out sooner then if you used it as a glorified wheel barrel but then that's why you charge the appropriate rates to account for that. Personally I think running concrete hammer is harder on the machine overall than a mower head. Eventually you will blow hoses and eventually you will wear out a pump but by that time you should be ready to upgrade to the next machine.

Personally I buy my T-300s with the longest warranty possible and then trade them off before the warranty expires.

The T-300 is a very nice compact mower and is quite amazing how well it functions. Of course usually once you start mowing you always want bigger and badder machines.

Bigger and bader is right.were looking at 621 and 721 Hydro-axs now.

 

[LabLuvR]

What made you guys decide on Bobcat vs. a Cat or ASV? And what do you think about getting a machine with tires and the add on tracks? I live in SC and would be doing more timber work than brush probably. Thanks for all the good advice!!

 

[Curbside]

I bought Bobcat because they are a good machine, been around for years, control nearly 50 percent of the market and the dealer in my area is excellent to me. If you want to go with a tire machine I would suggest caution on that. The forestry mowers are very heavy and you will be heavy on your front tires. If you do go with tires make sure you foam fill the tires.

The T-300 has a decent high flow rate at 38 gallons per minute at 3300 psi. It turns the mower at a decent speed and decent horsepower.

Like I said earlier once you start doing it you will want bigger.

You say you will be doing more timber than bush. What size of timber and what kind? The skidsteer mowers are really only effective up to the 5-6 mark. I have done trees 12-15" but they take time and mostly poplar if you want to do bigger wood you will have to look for way bigger machines.

Right now I am looking at several Fecon 140, Kodiak 160 or Gyrotrack 180. Probably will not purchase till next year but like I said once you have one you keep wanting bigger.

 

[LabLuvR]

My goal is to stay in the 6-8" range with the trees. Someone mentioned that Bobcat warned against foam in tires with the track/wheel combos. Something about axle bending.

 

[ASEMASTER]

foamin tires!

I'm considering buying a Cat skidsteer with around 80hp to run a brush mulching head on as part of a new landclearing business. Yesterday while talking to a Cat sales rep he cautioned me about using the Cat skidsteer mainly as a mulching tool. He claimed that the RPM's needed to run the head would wear the machine out prematurely if the machine was used day in and day out specifically with the mulching head. It was the first I've heard of this and know many guys who run the skidsteers with mulching heads. Now how many hours their machines run soley with the head I don't know. The rep mentioned some possible problems around 1,000 hours may develop?????

The odd thing is Cat sells a head for the skidsteer. Why would they do that or not have some cautions in their literature if it was/is a problem? Was the salesguy trying to sell me up to a dedicated machine or was their some substantial truth to what he was saying? Thanks for your input!!!!!!

the diesel engine is only driving the (high)out put hyd. pump . It should be run at max working rpm and it should out last the machine with proper maint.
As for the foam tires they work as we use them on our sidewalk plows .(BUT)there is undue stress on the drivetrain , you also must replace the rims and tires at the same time. you would be much better with the tracks.

 

[LabLuvR]

What about putting Nu-Tires on the machine avoiding the foam issue?

 

[Curbside]

What are NU Tires?


The problem with not foam filling is when you get a flat, and you will, it takes so long to change into another tire and then you get another flat and then you have no spares and on and on.

If you change up the machine before the warranty is up I wouldn't worry about the axles. I know the dealer here offers the foam filled tires with a new machine.

 

[LabLuvR]

Curb,

Sorry for the delay. Here is the Nu Tire I spoke of:

http://www.mclarenindustries.com/products.php?pID=1

 

[Totally Stumped]

You WILL wear the machine out faster in the land clearing application than in many others. Prematurely? Who's to say. You won't be running at full rpm all the time-it spools up, you get into the brush, it spools down and you have to wait for the engine rpms to come back up. Or it just dies altogether and you have to restart.

I agree with others, a diesel is made to run at a certain rpm and, with proper maintenance, should last a very long time. Clearing brush is far from running at a constant rpm. Throw in a diet of dust and off road pounding and, yes, you will shorten the life of the entire machine compared to other applications.

Cooling is a major concern and the best bit of advice I can give anyone in the mulcher business is to buy a cheap gas powered leaf blower and make it a habit to blow that machine out everytime you stop.

Land clearing is a tall order for ANY skid steer. You might be better off with a larger used or rebuilt machine like a Hydro-Axe or Ford. Also, watch your weight with foam tires and over the tire tracks.

Good luck!

 

[LabLuvR]

Thanks for the post. I'm thinking of allowing 3000 hrs for the life of the machine, is that reasonable? Thanks!

 

[Totally Stumped]

That's a lot of hours on a light duty piece of equipment. Will every component go 3000 hours? No way, not even close. That's a lot of tires, hoses, couplers, seals, filters, etc.
Again, heat and debris build up in the engine compartment will be a constant concern. Lots of burned up skid steers and mulcher heads around here.
Rayco and ASV have tried to adress this problem with a larger machine with a longer layout with the engine compartment hanging out the back. A conventional skid steer has the operator sitting on the hydraulic pumps and motors with the engine shoved in behind. Great for tight areas, bad for cooling. Can a skid steer clear brush? You bet! Are there better designs out there? I'd take a Rayco or ASV, in that order, over a tracked Cat, Bobcat, JD, New Holland or Case for everyday mulching and a warmed-over Hydro-Axe, Franklin, Barko or Ford over any of the skid steers.

What are you going to pull this beast with? A Cat 268B is 9000, plus foam filled tires 1000, gooseneck trailer 3500, mulcher 2500, over the tire tracks 1000, chains, tools, fuel, etc. 500 for a total of 17,500lbs. Whatcha drivin?

This whole mulcher business is not for the faint of heart or skinny wallet. Its easy to blow $100,000 just getting set up. Around here, guys can bill $1000/day on a good day. But an old D-6 or JD 650 with a skilled operator can still kick any mulchers a$$ at half the price. Food for thought...

 

[Curbside]

Curb,

Sorry for the delay. Here is the Nu Tire I spoke of:

http://www.mclarenindustries.com/products.php?pID=1

I've never seen those tires before. Quite something. The video pretty well says it all.