Questions about Homelite Super XL Automatic

[Wright Saw]

This is my new Homelite Super XL Automatic. I got it off Craigslist in non-running condition a couple days ago.


I have found the number 5 with a circle around it (like on a date wheel) cast into a few parts of the saw, this leads me to believe it was made around 1975. The black fuel cap, raised letter plastic air filter cover, and metal bodied oiler button also seem consistent with that year.

I have a few questions about it:

How would the serial number be decoded? It is 8 digits, but according to the service bulletin, it would have been made in 1980 on day #452. Should the zero be ignored and this be considered a 7-digit serial number?

Did these saws have washers under the bar nuts when they were new? I have seen pictures with and without washers , but which way is factory?

My saw seems to have weak spark. The saw is getting flooded and the spark tester light looks kind of dim. The on/off switch is working properly. The piston/cylinder are not scored, and it has 110 PSI compression, so I don't think that compression is the problem. It has a Wico Prestolite point ignition system with a blue coil. I already cleaned and set the points, sanded the flywheel magnets and coil, and replaced the spark plug. Yesterday, the saw started and ran for a second, then cut off. I have not been able to get it restarted. I have heard about the blue Prestolite coils going bad, does this usually cause weak spark or none at all?

Are there any resistance/continuity values for the coil so I can see if it is bad?


Thank you for your help

 

[undee70ss]

110 psi is bit low for that saw. Rings may be stuck. Your saw is a early/mid 1970’s model. The blue prestolite modules were used in the 1980’s, and doesn’t apply to your saw.

 

[undee70ss]

You can download a Homelite service manual here, two parts
https://www.leonschainsawpartsandre...vice_shop_manual_4th_edition__pages_1-76_.pdf

https://www.leonschainsawpartsandre...ce_shop_manual_4th_edition__pages_77-154_.pdf

 

[Wright Saw]

Thank you for the information and service manual. I have ordered a new set of points and a condenser, I think they will fix the weak spark. Can the saw run and idle properly with 110 psi compression?

 

[undee70ss]

Thank you for the information and service manual. I have ordered a new set of points and a condenser, I think they will fix the weak spark. Can the saw run and idle properly with 110 psi compression?

Yes if there is no other problems, but it will be a little low on power.

 

[67L36Driver]

lilrdbrn seller (Little Red barn) on evilbay has new piston & cylinder kits. [emoji106]

Real spendy but only game in town.

140+ psi is a good runner.

HOMELITE SUPER XL, BIG RED, OLD BLUE, XL12 CYLINDER & PISTON KIT, 1 13/16", NEW https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/181255679282

If your cylinder is good:
HOMELITE SUPER XL, BIG RED, OLD BLUE, 10045, PISTON KIT 1 13/16" , PART # A63648 https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/180705563079

 

[Wright Saw]

Thanks for the links and info. I'll run the saw some after I fix the ignition and see if the ring frees up. If the compression is still low, I'll look into getting new rings and maybe a piston.

 

[67L36Driver]

With 20” Remington roller nose bar.

Just to make you drool.

[emoji48]

 

[Wright Saw]

That's a nice saw.

 

[Wright Saw]

This is the bar on my Homelite. It is a 16" called length hard nose bar and the grooves are 0.050" gauge. I have a few questions abut it:
Is this an original Homelite bar, and could it be the original one to my saw?
The tensioner slots on the bar are rectangular shaped, but the pin on the saw is round. Is this the correct tensioner slot design for XL 12/Super XL saws?

This bar seems thicker and heavier than most newer ones, and the end near the clutch has been "funneled" with a file. I could not find any markings, numbers or paint on it. The end where the bar mounts to the saw has spots of lighter rust in the same pattern as the slots in the bar plates.


The chain is a Carlton A1 3/8" pitch 0.050" gauge. Was this the original chain on any XL-12/Super XLs?

Thank you

 

[67L36Driver]

‘Funneled’ is what you want. [emoji106]

I’ve ‘funneled’ some with a Dremel.

.050” gauge is normal for Homelite. Your bar may easily be worn to .058”. See if a length of .058 travels easily all round.

 

[Wright Saw]

‘Funneled’ is what you want. [emoji106]

I’ve ‘funneled’ some with a Dremel.

.050” gauge is normal for Homelite. Your bar may easily be worn to .058”. See if a length of .058 travels easily all round.

I was using a penny and dime to approximate bar gauge, but I have remeasured with feeler gauges and a caliper. The chain is .050 and while the bar measures .058 in some areas, it is .050 all the way around.

 

[undee70ss]

Any markings on the bar? The chain is not original. At the time your saw was made, Homelite used their own chain.

 

[Wright Saw]

Any markings on the bar? The chain is not original. At the time your saw was made, Homelite used their own chain.

Thank you for the chain info. There are no markings anywhere on the bar and I don't see any traces of paint.

 

[Wright Saw]

The points and condenser came today. The new points were misaligned, and while attempting to straighten them with pliers, the plastic movable point broke. I can't reuse the old movable point, because the hole in it is worn to an oval shape and it lets the points slide before opening. I have to order another set of points, so it will be a few more days before I can get the saw running. I have also installed a new air filter, starter grip insert, and ground wire.

 

[Okie]

Thank you for the information and service manual. I have ordered a new set of points and a condenser, I think they will fix the weak spark. Can the saw run and idle properly with 110 psi compression?

Just some info from experience on those type saws. (really a good strong little saw when all is corect
Yes: It will idle and cut good at 110, even down to 80 if all else is correct.
AND points and condenser is a good thing for old saws and gap the points at .020 then slowly rotate the crank and drag a dollar bill through the points to clean them before installing the flywheel. New ones sometimes have a slight glaze or your feeler gauge will contaminate the new points. The spark on those saws can fool you especially when looking at it in bright light. To check the spark, take the existing plug out, get another plug and gap it at about .030-040 and ground it good (don't let it just dangle around) dim the lights in the room or turn the light off and crank and look at the spark. You will probably be surprised at how strong it actually is. (and HEADS UP, those saws will spit heavy fire out the spark plug hole if a spark plug dangles over the hole and sparks and the block is flooded))

I've seen flooding and hard starting issues when cold on those type saws, especially when they don't idle good due to
1. The 4 nuts holding the piston jug to the block (and very common to find them loose) which causes a vacuum/pressure leak and if you find them loose at all and tightening don't help the idle/run, pressure test the block and check the gasket for leakage and the crank seals and when you pull the jug to replace the gasket is a good time to install set of new rings if the piston and cylinder look ok. (and it's common for the compression release pintle hole to leak when doing a pressure vacuum test. Just plug the de-compression hole to slow the leak and test the other stuff)

2. carb bad. needs a kit. Them carbs are not user friendly to re-install. I have some tips to make re-install lots easier, just ask if you have it off and get to sweating the re-install.

Usually when them type Homies flood you can let it set for about 8-12 hours, then crank it with the decompression set and at fast idle, NO CHOKE and get a start or promise to run.
What I'm saying is when one has bad idle or run issues they flood easily and do not unflood easily and I've seen the L jet on those be happy for good idle and correct at anywhere to 1/2 turn to 1 1/4 turns and critical. (if you find the L jet adjustment seems to want to change as the saws engine temps changes from cold to hot and vice versa it most likely has a vacuum leak.

The Walbro site has some real good SERVICE info for those type carbs for viewing or downloading.

 

[Wright Saw]

Thank you for the information, Okie. My saw may have an air leak, the crankcase screws were loose when I got it and the whole drivecase wiggled slightly, possibly damaging gaskets. I tightened the screws and put blue Loctite on them. I also slightly tightened the two cylinder nuts that I could get to with the flywheel off. It will probably need a carburetor kit, but I would like to see how it runs first before I install one. I also noticed that the idle mixture screw was backed out about three turns, but I have readjusted it to 1 turn out. I will make sure to let the saw sit a while if I flood it again.

 

[Okie]

There is 4 of the cylinder nuts. If two was loose the other two are loose and it will leak. If you keep running it with them loose it will ruin the gasket if it's not already ruined. Couple of them are hard to get a standard non modded wrench onto. I had to take a good grade of box end wrench and open on other end, think it was 1/2 inch size, 12 point, not 6 point because you are just going to get little bitty bites in the close area and go to bench grinder and thin out the box end little at time, don't get the wrench hot enough to turn blue or it will soften, dip it in water to keep it cool, keep making it thinner until you can slip it over the top of the 2 nuts that are hard to get too.
If the wrench is too long it won't work either, seems like about 5-6 inches long. Every once in awhile you can get a bite with the open end.
I've not found very many of those type Homies with bad crankshaft seals, but if one is bad it's usually on the clutch side.

Do you have a Vac/pressure tester? (or a way of injecting not over 5 lbs of air pressure)
Reason I ask is to get to all 4 of the cylinder jug nuts you have to just suck it up and accept the fact that you are going to have to get deep to tighten them last two nuts and it's a good time to pressure test the crankcase while it's stripped, instead of putting it all back together, it not run correctly and then testing and find you have to go back again. I just build my own block off plates for the carb/muffler and use my injection thru the spark plug hole using a homemade adapter or one of the adapters.
Have some soap/water ready in a spray bottle and watch for bubbles as you are injecting not over 5 lbs of air and expect the de compression pintle to be leaking. A helper is handy for spraying and watching for leaks while one keep at least 3 lbs of air pressure on the block. The de-compressor hole on those Homies is not easy to sealed for the block to stay pressurized like most saws so as one guy can easily test.
Once you get the block sealed up good and it don't go good then you head to the carb and fuel line areas.
Takes a load off the mind knowing that you have a good sealed block and most generally if you find leaks in ones of those blocks the carb will come around and be ok. (those carbs L idle jet is really critical of block leaks)
I've seen lots of guys wrongly blame low compression for poor performance on those when it was just a loose jug AND bad carb.

Patience is your main friend on them Homies and it helps to know that when you get one running right they were built to last several years of use, not a disposable consumable saw like lots of the Plastic/Magnesium junk now days. I have 5 or 6 and couple that I use quite often for trimming that are close to 40 years old and all they ever needed was a chain and later a carb kit at about 30 plus years old. Keep them away from the ethanol fuel will also prolong their life.

 

[Wright Saw]

I don't have a pressure tester, but I could probably rig something up. The cylinder nuts weren't very loose, I just torqued them down a little more. It's a lot of parts to remove to get to the crankcase, so I would like to see if it runs with new points first. If it seems to have an air leak, I will take it apart and replace the cylinder and crankcase gaskets, crankshaft seals, and maybe install a set of piston rings.

 

[Okie]

I don't have a pressure tester, but I could probably rig something up. The cylinder nuts weren't very loose, I just torqued them down a little more. It's a lot of parts to remove to get to the crankcase, so I would like to see if it runs with new points first. If it seems to have an air leak, I will take it apart and replace the cylinder and crankcase gaskets, crankshaft seals, and maybe install a set of piston rings.

You are correct about lots of parts and pieces to remove on them just to get too all 4 of the jug nuts.
That is what I indicated when I said before that sometimes a guy just has to suck it up and flog it deeper. It helps knowing that them type of old saws are worthwhile to spend some time on because they were made for the long haul, not lots of plastic junk on them. First time I was flooging one of them type Homies I had a good runner and a bad runner, both just alike with compression reading the same. I took all the parts off the good one little at a time transferring them to the bad runner and the good runner kept on going with all the parts from the bad runner on it.
I stripped the bad runner down to the block and pressure tested, replaced a clutch side seal, got it back together thinking I've got it now and the same problems.
a. palmer jr. gave me a hint to check the jug to block for a leak. So back into it again and sure enough I had been overlooking and not testing that area and had to replace the gasket on that one. I've seen other's later that just tightening the jug nuts would get a good seal.

Just another hint: Do not ever use any Hi pressure air for cleaning those carbs and no direct injection of low pressure air from a air hose, those type carbs have some non-replaceable non serviceable internal parts (itty bitty check valves, etc) that can be damaged. A carb cleaner from a spray can into the passages is ok or keep the low pressure from a air hose backed away from the carb.

Maybe the Homie gods will smile on you with a good run with just the points/condenser.