Questions?

[treeman82]

Hey guys, did a nice big 85 - 90' tall white ash today and was gettin kicked off my gaffs a lot. They are the Buckinghams. I haven't sharpened them in a while now and was taking some big pieces on some smaller wood. I never used to get knocked off my gaffs like this. Does this mean that I should sharpen them?

Also, while I was removing the tree my Weaver saddle was really tearing up my sides. Is there anything I can get or do that will stop my sides from being pinched and scraped up by my saddle?

thanx-

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

As we discussed on the AIM, probibly need some work on the gaffs, but it sounds like the groundies are shocking you too much. If you ar twice the length of the load up, you should be able to let it run enough so you cannot feel it much.

 

[UrbanEarth]

Forgive my ignorance but these posts made my baffle meter go off the chart.

What do you mean by being kicked off your gaffs???

AIM = What???

Groundies shocking you ???

Now to go fix the baffle meter, again!

Alan

 

[treeman82]

Alan, by "being kicked off of my gaffs" I just meant that I was "gaffing out" if you are more familiar with that term.

As far as the saddle goes, I meant that the sides of my waist are being pinched by my saddle and I want to know if there is something I can do to fix that problem.

 

[Shespen]

I don't know if this will help but here is a couple of suggestions. First of all you probably need to sharpen your gaffs. White oak is one of the hardest pieces of wood out there and you really have to consiously sink the gaffs into them. Jam them more sideways into the tree than down.
The other thing that really helps eliminate the jarring around is to make your face cut wider...alot wider. As soon as the face closes it starts to put pressure on the trunk in the opposite direction of the face. When the log comes off it releases that pressure... sometimes radically. The bigger the face cut, the less pressure the top will apply before it comes off. Make a top cut and a bottom cut both in your face cut. (of course this takes all the fun out of it). However I really doubt that this is your problem though come to think of it,because this type of jarring is more prominent on tall skinny trees. When you get down to big wood it is alot less of a problem. I suspect that you were getting reverb shock from the torsion on your pick. The farther away your pick is from what you are cutting the more fun it is. Also make sure that the lowering line is going straight down from your pick to the bottom of the tree to a port-a-wrap. Don't let your groundman take it to another tree off to the side somewhere. You want the shock load going straight down the axis of the trunk of your pick to absorb the weight. It doesn't hurt to even take a wrap or two around the trunk as it goes down. Yeah, let it run if you have room.
Cinch your saddle up a notch tighter. and get some padding. Have fun!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i might suggest, you hook your lanyard to one front D; this can take a lot of pressure off the hips, make sure it is above the block!


Are you using tree gaffs, or pole gaffs? Tree gaffs bite deepr and at better angle.

Try wide mouth hinge, DO NOT CROSS FACE CUTS! Eliminate some wood from sides (leave nice hinge at front), especially leathery bark, leave only enough holding wood to usher complete control,as fast as possible, you can always choose to slow saw down, but if there is too much wood fiber migh not be able to speed it up, give yourself this wide range of adjustment, by allowing speed, but not using it unless you need it. Minimize distance between pulley and 1st hitch on load. Walk back cut to point of failure, have groundies pull over the top with rope at high leverage, flexing hinge through range of facecut slowly (you can push from back) to flex hinge with more 'meat' guiding it over. Then run smoothly, not allowing to accelerate, but not holding back total weight either. Soon as it leaves the stump, i slap my hand down on top of stump for stability. Snub out resulting force into ground, or de-accelerate before. Sometimes we redirect line from pulley to a slightly lower , but high anchor, to take out load. This can give more sideways movement in low diameter or springy spars so is not always the best thing to do. Pre-tighten line before you start, this will help pull top over and take play out of machine, usherring more control over load, you can always give more slack if you need to, so pre-tighten; to have wide range of control, just like pre-cutting for greatest speed control.

Use all these things to slowly hand load off with less force into pre-tightened rig, with as lil'drop as possible and run to ground. Minimize the forces against you, while maximizing the forces on your side. Take all these things and use them on all rigs, to practice daily; they all apply; then have sharper skills, understanding and feel for these big tests of their assembly and orchestration.

-KC

P.S. AIM is AOL Insant Messenger for chat.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

A way to dampen the movement of the trunk is to leave as much wood on below as possible. It isn't always convenient to start at the top and work down but you may be able to clear a slot to drop the top through.

There are saddles on the market that don't bite and pinch. At one time, it seemed that being rubbed raw was necessary.

Take a look at the Butterfly saddle by Komet. Write to me if you need a vendor. It is fast becoming the hottest saddle on the market. At last years ITCC there were about thirty climbers. The most popular saddle with the climbers and technicians was the Butterfly. The rest of the climbers used a variety of different saddles.

The Ultra-light from Sierra Moreno is another comfy saddle.

Tom

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Some guys with these older style saddles use some kind of spreader attached to the front 2 D rings. Have you seen the rope snaps that look like 2 regular rope snaps put toghether? They hold the D rings about 4" apart while you work, so there is less pinching on the sides.

This is helpful if you are a guy who is a little bigger in the middle, or if the saddle is just a little too small. Moving your lanyard to the front will also make things more comfortable.

Both saddles Tom recommended are the hottest thing since sliced bread. I wonder about durability of these lightweight saddles, pehaps Tom could give some feedback on this.

My spikes are getting dull and I notice I gaff out more often but I dont tear up my pants and boots as much, and i gotta think I would do less rope damage if it hit it with a dull gaff.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

AOL= Training wheels for the internet.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

My Butterfly has ben in service for about 15 months and I don't see any wear.

The UltraLight is that, only in name MY UL is still very useable after being in service for seven years.

Mike, will you be at the WAA meeting in Green Bay? I'll be there and spending time at the booth of the supply company that sponsors Tree Climbing Team USA. They have B'flys.

Tom

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Yes Tom, I'll be in Green Bay, I hope to see you there. I make a point of attending the WAA thing every year, it's very well done.

I aslo try to get to the TCI show. I'm excited that it's coming to Milwaukee this year.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i have used a butterfly snap/ spreader for years, love the newer safer, locking snaps! i am lil'guy and still get this pinch without this spreader snap.

i think that it keeps your hips from getting pinched while hanging by not pulling the front D's to a point; i am not sure if it will give much relief while standing/ blocking out trunks. That is why i visualized the stress at this time coming from the lanyard holding most of the weight from the hips on side D's, and to relieve it getting the more of the weight pulling from the front D's.

i think that Tom is of course write about leaving some lower wood to stabilize trunk, mostly to not get it into a sprung state; also leave weight on backside of drop side to stabilize instead of cutting out all of the easy stuff first. Also when choosing which direction to rig from, go for the strongest axis of the spar to rig in; one way will be stroger and less springy than the rest.

i agree that AOL is about the most user friendly intro to the internet, abd routinely advise folks to start with it and wean yourself off!

-KC

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

AIM-AOL Instant Messanger. I finaly put it on since they tried using it for chat here, and have been "talking" to 82 with it off and on for a month now.

SHocking I meant shocking the load and moving the spar. Most loads can be dropped with on wrap on a PWII, a heck of a lot can be done with a half wrap.

On the saddle, look to see where the D's are compared to your hip. The saddle may bee too large for your waist.

 

[oakdancer]

Drink more beer in an evening Treeman that'll stop the harness digging into you

 

[treeman82]

There are three times when the saddle will pinch 1) when I have a lot of weight hanging from my side (chain saw / couple ropes / pulley...) 2) when I am trying to spread my legs to hold onto something while turned to my side. or 3) in the winter when the jacket doesn't let me cinch it down tight enough and I gotta go low which lets the saddle rub against almost bare skin

I use the spreader snap as we speak and have been doing so for years. It's not the leg straps that bother me as much as by my left D-ring for the belly line.


Tom, how much does this "butterfly" saddle go for? Do they sell them at Sherill?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

The Butterfly sells for around $200.

I noticed that one of the B'ham saddles sells for $330. How can that be? That must be an extraordinary saddle. It doesn't look any different than any other, except the new colors.

Sherrill may have one but as far as I know it isn't one of their usual saddles.

Tom

 

[Bradley]

TreeSpyder, what do you mean by "...do not cross face cuts."? I understand open face or wide mouth cuts, is this what you're talking about? Thanks!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

To make a perfect knotch for facecut. Whereby, the 2 cuts meet perfectly, and do not cross.

In this way, the hinge does knot close early, for if the cuts cross you have altered the gravity powered machine and the facecut will close early, for it will form a hinge within a hinge, and the primary (inner)hinge will be giving the machine instruction, this can nullify wide face cut effect among other things. With an inner notch, it will have more towards the charachterisitcs of a kerf cut for face cut.

If done properly on just one side, this inner notch can give push off from that side and tear across to the other side on the rib of the hinge, as the inner will close earlier as the opposite side is still slosing and holding, pulling it to that side as inner notch pushes into it.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Sounds like a good ROT for all face cuts. Ensuer that the apex of the wedge is clean so that the hinge starts there, otherwise you may cut your hinge out. this is especialy true with twisty grains, even having the backcut off plane with the knotch apex can cause hinge failure.