Raisin Cain--Are we our branches' keepers?

[Dadatwins]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Dada,

Taking the limbs off for clearance only benefits humans. In no way does this benefit trees.

Sorry, I still disagree that pruning a street tree for clearance does not benefit the tree. If tree is left to grow into roadway and continually hit by traffic how are we helping it by not removing the obstruction? In a perfect world we divert the cars / trucks but I have not seen that done.

If pruning is so good for trees how did they survive for so long without our care? [/QUOTE]

Agreed much pruning to trees is done just to benefit people and to give the public a so-called pre-disposed picture as to what a tree is supposed to look like. Trees in a naturalized setting like forests usually do not need any intervention on the part of pruning to survive, but in the urban setting I believe without some intervention ( not to be confused with interference) many will be lost.

 

[jkrueger]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Dada,

when we make a decision to prune a tree we only have two choices:

Do humans benefit
Do trees benefit

All other decisions cascade down from those start points.

Trees should be planted along roadways. They also need to be pruned so that the branches don't interfere with traffic. Taking the limbs off for clearance only benefits humans. In no way does this benefit trees.

.If pruning is so good for trees how did they survive for so long without our care? You do realize that arboriculture has really only been practiced for a little over a century. Silviculture style tree pruning hasn't been practiced for much longer. Add to this the fact that its only been since about the mid to late fifties with the use of hand-held chainsaws that we've gotten the idea into our heads that removing limbs is beneficial.

Tom

Tom,

Your missing something here, this is the first time I get to say that to you!

1) There is more as a stating point than your rule about where to start thinking about pruning. Take volunteer tress, they are there out of the domain of preservation of species. They will overcome what ever obstacle they have to. They will use their 'intelligence' to accomplish their goal.

2) In cities, over time, a lot of wronge choices were made as to what to plant where. I show up and want to give those 'beings' a fair shake at doing their thing. When trees which generaly have low bowing limbs are on a major traffic street I will have to limb them up to a height that is unacceptible in text book standards. And in most cases that limbing up is removing branches at or about 16' that some truck tore off. The point with this one is that I treat these specimens sympatheticly as I would a volunteer.

3) I have found oaks maples and many other specise growing out of side walk cracks.


Get what I'm trying to say?

Thanks,
Jack

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Dada,

How do I explain this? Granted, if the branch is broken it splinters and is worse for the tree than a proper cut. Either way, the tree has less capacity to produce starches. Since pruning is always a reduction process, it doesn't benefit the tree.

I think you're taking what I'm saying as an attack or a tirade about not pruning. Not so on either count. Just a little arbo-philosophy I'm with you on treating trees with respect.

Tom

 

[Dadatwins]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Dada,

How do I explain this? Granted, if the branch is broken it splinters and is worse for the tree than a proper cut.

OK I think we are getting closer to a somewhat agreement, I just think it would be benefit to street tree to remove limbs over roadway before getting 'splintered' by traffic. No 'attack about non - pruning' taken I just think on certain trees 'site appropiate pruning' is a benefit.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

"low branches are seldom appropriate for large growing trees in an urban environment..."

They can be most spectactular in an urban setting.

"street trees must be pruned so that they allow at least 16 feet for clearance...Most landscape trees only require about 8 feet of clearance."

Sixteen feet above the street, ok. Sixteen feet to the side, maybe, sometimes. Sixteen feet high on the side of the tree that is not over the street, almost never!
Landscape trees do not need 8 feet. What if there is no lawn or foot traffic?

"Most large growing trees in the landscape must eventually be pruned to allow head clearance."

Not if there is no lawn or sidewalk.

The ISA writes these leaflets like a ROW clearance guideline, not like tree care information. I understand streets and sidewalks need clearance, this does not mean all trees need to be raised.
The ISA does not make clear that it is bad for the tree to raise it up (a necessary evil, in some cases), they make it sound mandatory.

And Guy, don't even get me started on the ISA thinning leaflet.

 

[rumination]

"And Guy, don't even get me started on the ISA thinning leaflet."

DO get started on it Mike. I'm curious as to what it says and why you disagree, and why Guy does agree. Really. Seriously. I'm interested. I'm not kidding.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Originally posted by Dadatwins
Sorry, I still disagree that pruning a street tree for clearance does not benefit the tree. If tree is left to grow into roadway and continually hit by traffic how are we helping it by not removing the obstruction? In a perfect world we divert the cars / trucks but I have not seen that done.

You should come to Conway, South Carolina. Conway (founded in 1733) was a planned city so most of it was laid out as a grid. Some of the streets are reduced to a single lane or one of the lanes reduced to divert traffic around them.

 

[MasterBlaster]

If the limb is a problem, remove it.

If not, leave it alone.

Nuff said?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Let's say a very high value, historic tree, growing in an ideal location, has just the tip of one limb reaching into a parking spot. This hypothetical limb is 60% of the tree's total crown.
MB, do we just cut it off?
According to you and the ISA, yes.
See the point of this thread yet?

 

[MasterBlaster]

I usually do the opposite of over-analyzing the situation.

 

[Dadatwins]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
Let's say a very high value, historic tree, growing in an ideal location, has just the tip of one limb reaching into a parking spot. This hypothetical limb is 60% of the tree's total crown.
MB, do we just cut it off?
According to you and the ISA, yes.

I would suggest closing off the parking space, but if impossible then a proper cut to eliminate chance of vehicle damage to limb.
ISA does almost seems like the tree police with these pamphlets and does not take into account the thousands of different scenarios in the real world. Would be hard to do because pamphlet would turn into encylopedia pretty quickly. Think they would better off using should / shall system like in ANSI for a lot of their handouts instead of making suggestions seem like 'MUST DO's'

 

[Stumper]

Tom, I do understand what you mean about arboriculture being a relatively recent development.-Modern arboriculture is.....well.....modern. I'll pick a nit with you though. The creation account in Genesis says that God placed Adam in the garden and told him to "tend the trees of the garden" (King James Version) That doesn't say prune but I like to tease that I practice the real"world's oldest profession". The Old testament book of Amos is about Amos' preaching moral reforms. Amos doesn't claim to be a fancy smancy prophet by heritage rather a "shepherd and a pruner of sycamore figs". Amos was a professional Arborist.

Move up to the colonization of North America and you find a fascinating story in the importation of apple trees and the propagation of apples for cider. Then, as certain table varieties popped up in the corners of orchards (luck of the draw sort of developments), a huge spate of grafting took place in order to propagate these special apples. Arboriculture? I think so. We might cringe at the pruning and be amazed at the efforts to transport trees halfway around the world but those folks were caring for trees. A fair ammount of the correspondence between our nation's founders was about tree propagation. :angel:

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Stumper,

Interesting insights into "the oldest profession".

When I think of arbo as a profession it is when people took care of trees as their full-time paycheck. A little different than gardeners and orchards. But I know that you got my point

Are you going to be at the RMC-TCC?

Tom

 

[Stumper]

:blush:I'm out of the loop I guess-- Er... when is it? I'm swamped at the moment but that would be interesting.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Justin,

The TCC is on 6/12 at Thompson Park in Longmont. On 6/11 I'll be doing a climbing and rigging workshop at the same place.

email me off line and I can send the brochure to you.

Tom