Rambling thoughts on PPE & saftey + a couple of questions

[Locoweed]

I have been reading the discussions about PPE and chaps/pants with some interest. I have reached the time in life where I am aware that my reflexes & strength etc. are "not what they used to be" and I don't want to discuss mental processes So I am re-evaluating my position on some of this stuff.

When most of us were young, we were bullet proof and the bad things always happened to someone else. For me, back then, society was not as concerned with safety. Indeed, if you brought the subject up, you stood a fair chance of being ridiculed.

In my opinion, we have changed around to the point of being obsessed with safety. I have generally tried to live my life somewhere in the middle of the road for most things. Some of you don't wear eye or ear protection and some seem to go in the woods armored like a knight of the round table. For me the right answer usually lies between two extremes.

In addition to eye and ear protection, I have mainly relied on safe work habits. Something that gets mentioned, but in my opinion, it needs more emphasis. The older I get, the more attention I pay to it!

However, the issue I am contemplating at the moment is chaps/pants. I am in need of some more input. I am having trouble visualizing what people are doing and or the series of events that lead to the left leg getting the largest percentage of the hits. The right leg I could understand better as it is the closest to the saw.

Maybe I just don't do what ever it is that results in the left leg hits, or it is those mental processes that are letting me down again.

Another question.

The two saws I use the most are the 026 with a 18" bar and a 044 with a 32". Is the longer bar and chain significantly more dangerous? I haven't had it long and have not used it a great deal yet. It is mainly used for bucking large trunks.

Thanks

 

[chainsawworld]

what makes any saw more dangerous then the next? would the 200t be dangerous because the handles are so close together and give you less leverage during kickback? would a 044 with a 24 inch bar be because the longer the cutting surface or the greater chance of kickback when the tip is so far away from the cutter? all saws are dangerous. they are designed to cut and they dont care what they cut.
as far as the PPE goes, i recommend a good helmet with eye and ear protection,chaps and a sturdy pair of steel tipped boots with a good traction sole.
learning how to survive in the woods is as equally important. the woods are naturally full of hazards high and low. now we are going to add to it by cutting trees and adding equipment.
the best advice i can give is to attend a safety class. during my course of Woods And Chainsaw Safety i teach the PPE, saw care and maintenance, entering the woods, working in the woods, safe felling,springpole and limbing and pretty much everything else on how to stay safe.
you will get lots of ideas on the net but the bet is personal, hands on instruction. marty

 

[Locoweed]

Seems to me that a longer bar = longer chain that can reach further to get you when it comes off the bar. Or maybe wrap it's self around part of you and do more damage.

 

[Chainsaw Master]

I think that when you hold a saw in the natural position, arms extended down, with both hands on the saw, the bar angles toward the left leg.

Something I notice about myself when I run a saw, I tend to keep some part of the saw touching my body, as in cutting a notch, I use my leg or knee on the bottom of the trigger handle, for leverage.

One of the most dangerous things in the woods is a "spring Pole" .....a sapling caught by a felled larger tree, bent over, full of tension, just waiting for a sawyer to cut it, flinging the saw where ever it wants to.....like releasing a catapult.....

 

[badcars2]

the best ppe

the best ppe i have ever seen is common sense. look around and think,, what could go wrong, worse case. not what will go wrong. I have done some stupid things but at the same time i am very lucky. ever done something when after the fact you you think, , "man dodged one there, there have been people die like this." i dont rely on luck, i work on cranes and other construction equiptment. these machines are unforgiving for mistakes. also the do not feel mercy and remorse. grinding you up is just part of their job if the situation arises. that powerful saw in your hand. do you respect it? if you dont it will get you. not a question of if?, but when? sorry just a rant about safety, guess its my job, i have about 12 men under me on a construction job, large scale, we are maintenance. i give this same speech every other day. scare the hell out of them. hope it just makes them think!!

 

[Locoweed]

Badcars2, I agree with what you have say. I have been cutting firewood for 35+ years and have not been hurt yet. That doesn't mean I won't get hurt tomorrow. Especially if I do something dumb.

Unfortunately the old saying "nothing common about having sense" seems to be more true today.

 

[Dadatwins]

Best PPE in my opinion is Respect and Knowledge. R & K for the equipment you are using, and understanding how it will react under different conditions. You can kevlar yourself from head to toe but if you become overconfident and lose respect for the damage the equipment can do, or just plain do not know what you are doing, you will get hurt. That being said, I wear eye and ear protection, gloves and a helmet. I am not a big fan of chaps at this point either, although I understand the function and danger involved with not wearing them.
As for the long bar being more dangerous, I would say the more chain that is out spinning the more chance of it hitting something and kicking back. Of course if it is buried in a log it is not an issue. I am talking about the folks that use 30" bars to flush cut 10" trees.

 

[Jackman61]

My dad owned a garage door business. He posted a very meaningful notice above the bathroom mirror. " You are looking at the person most responsible for your safety". I have taken this to heart and I will wear my chaps, gloves, and helmet system if I am running my 14" Homelite or my 28" Husqvarna 372. PPE all the time everytime. Most of all, respect the equipment you are using. Ask yourself, does the saw realy know if it is cutting a log or your leg????? Th answer is never to find out! The machine does not care what is under the bar, it just cuts. Stay safe for the sake of your family and friends.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

For me, back then, society was not as concerned with safety. Indeed, if you brought the subject up, you stood a fair chance of being ridiculed.

In my opinion, we have changed around to the point of being obsessed with safety. I have generally tried to live my life somewhere in the middle of the road for most things. Some of you don't wear eye or ear protection and some seem to go in the woods armored like a knight of the round table. For me the right answer usually lies between two extremes.

Agreed! For each of us, we have to do a cost vs. benefit analysis. The price of the equipment is the obvious cost, but there's also lost time (putting it on), the inconvenience of some of it (chaps in hot weather, or climbing), and so on.

Then there are the benefits:

1. Ear protection is obvious. If you don't use it, you WILL lose hearing. No probabilities here.
   
   
2. Eye protection, pretty easy. High probability of injury if you don't wear it, and injuries here are a very high cost. (I know a man who lost one eye at age 10, the other at age 20. Both freak accidents.)
   
   
3. Helmet. High probability of injury if working in trees. Smacking your head on a low branch if nothing else. Injuries here are across the spectrum from minor to fatal.
   
   
4. Gloves. Not hard to see the benefits here.
   
   
5. Chaps. Hmmm. Lower probability of injury. Again, severity is across the spectrum from minor to fatal.

For me, helmet, eye protection (safety glasses & screen), ear muffs, gloves, and chaps make sense.


Safe PRACTICES also have a cost vs. benefit equation, though we rarely think about it. The cost isn't monetary, usually, and the benefits are high. Clearly much more important than PPE.

But that doesn't negate the need for PPE.

 

[Onelick]

Here is the most important piece of information that made me start wearing chaps. I also was one that did not wear them until I heard this:
It takes 4/10 of a second for your brain to realize something is wrong and to tell your muscles to START moving.
A saw chain moves roughly 60 mph.
In that same 4/10ths of a second, about 264 teeth pass through one point on that bar.....
You can't move that fast!!!
Ever since then I started wearing chaps.
Onelick

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

But if you are like most people, you still follow about 1/10th of a second behind the car in front of you.

Time it sometime.

 

[chainsawworld]

here is a story that is sad but true. the worst part is that i was a safety instructor at the time.
i chunked out a large tree enough to get it below the powerlines. dropped the remainder at the base with no problem. at this point i was done and it was time for the ground guys to take over. i was hanging my chaps in the back of the truck so i could tend to my ropes and noticed that when i dropped the butt i created a springpole. i continued to hand up my chaps, walked over and picked up my 064 to remove the hazard so no one would get hurt. right by the book. observed the hazard and needed to address it. started the shave and whack. forgot the chaps and took one to the left thigh. i could instantly taste the bar and chain oil. i walked over to a groundy and told him i thought i was cut. he looked at my leg and his eyes rolled back in his head. it really didn't bleed bad yet but being an EMT i knew i did not have much time. i gave pretty clear direction to pick up the stuff and get moving. they were so in shock they started to put stuff away were it went on the trucks. come on guys, no time for that! seeing that it was too much for them i got in the pick up and headed to the hospital that was 10 minutes away. some how i made it with no problem.
the doctor said it took over 100 stiches to repair the large muscle(rectus femoris)in the front of the thigh, for some reason the chain did not knick or cut the femoral artery when it hit it and he did not even bother to count the rest of the stiches.
i use the pants as part of my lesson plan still today. that is exactly how my leg looked. the second photo is how my leg looks today after the plastic surgen was done. marty