Rope climbing questions

[ray benson]

Haha I actually read your post, then mine. I thought you were nuts for a second. I did mean rappelling down. I have not a clue why I said belay.
I've only seen the grigri in use, never actually used it.

Also, I do mean arbormaster, I just assumed 5/16, it probably is 1/2, honestly, it's a 1/16 of an inch. not bad for an eyeball. lol I totally understand the strength differences, but I just picked it up and though it felt thick.


Thanks,

Jeff

Put 5/16 next to 1/2" rope. The 1/2" seems almost twice as thick, but it is really 3/16" thicker diameter.

 

[D Mc]

Replaced the Lockjack with the Unicender huh Dave. I would like to check that thing out sometime.

Cody

You are more than welcome to give it a try, Lord Greystoke. Just remember, it's going to be like taking a Ferrari for a test drive, then driving home in your F100.

Dave

 

[sawinredneck]

Well Jeff, I try and do everything I can to discourage people from trying this on their own. As this is how I have/am learning, it's incredibly hard and dangerous.

SRT has certain advantages, and is faster to ascend on. But it's gear intensive, and ANY amount of climbing gear is expensive! DRT is much easier to learn on, and most everything can be converted over to SRT in time.

Read the "Tree climbers companion" until you all but have it memorized, then start working on knots. Do them until you can tie them blindfolded!
Find a tree at that point and stay slow and low.
Good luck!

 

[Greystoke]

Tarzan...The ape man?

:monkey:

You are more than welcome to give it a try, Lord Greystoke. Just remember, it's going to be like taking a Ferrari for a test drive, then driving home in your F100.

Dave

"Lord Greystoke"...That's awesome! Makes me want to beat my chest! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHWbsvgQUE
I am working my way up to test driving the Ferrari...I even have a Falteimer and a Big Shot now, some fling it and zing it, a Silky Sugoi 15", Silky Hayauchi, and a Bee line eye to eye for the Valdotain Tresse(which I just test drove the other day; sweet!), recent additions to my library are: The Tree Climbers Guide, and Gerry Beranek's Working Climber DVD set. Also, I get extra credit for owning the Silvey Tree Saver Backpack unit, or a Silvey Pro Sharp Chain Grinder (now that is a Ferrari), and maybe my Silvey bar rail grinder and closer. I finally got to use my tree jacks on a residential application as I used them on that job that you guys reffered to me; they were sweet; jacked over the biggest dead Cottonwood on that job with ease, and managed to impress Michael the caretaker. I would love to try out your new gear sometime. By the way, when are you going to get a Teupen Spyderlift for me to test drive? :biggrinbounce2:

Cody

 

[Garden Of Eden]

Wow. I just re-read the entire thread. Canopy, where you were talking about a figure-8 I totally thought you meant in the tree, that's why I was confused initially. lol I get it not. I missed the words, on the anchor tree. lol

I get it now. My copy of On Rope was just sent back by my lovely neighbor. He got it by accident, and is kind of rude. lol So, I get to shop for one now. sick of waiting.

Thanks everyone,

Jeff

 

[tree md]

Without rereading back through this thread, I imagine Canopy is talking about setting up his anchor with a figure 8 at the base of the tree so there is a belay devise on the ground in case he needs to be lowered. Not sure if that is discussed in On Rope but I expect it is as it is a pretty standard technique. Also, you can use a throwline to make your rope retrievable if you set your anchor high in the tree. That is a trick I learned from someone on here. Enjoy your book, I am certainly enjoying my copy.

 

[canopyboy]

Without rereading back through this thread, I imagine Canopy is talking about setting up his anchor with a figure 8 at the base of the tree so there is a belay devise on the ground in case he needs to be lowered. Not sure if that is discussed in On Rope but I expect it is as it is a pretty standard technique. Also, you can use a throwline to make your rope retrievable if you set your anchor high in the tree. That is a trick I learned from someone on here. Enjoy your book, I am certainly enjoying my copy.

As for tying off the (non-climbing) end of your SRT line, I take a couple wraps around the anchor tree. Then I tie a figure 8 on a bight in the free end. I then clip a biner through the bight and around the loaded end of the line going up, making a "slip knot" if you will.

On Rope has many, many pages dedicated to anchoring systems though. And a lot of other useful stuff for SRT.

No, that was the figure 8 knot I was talking about. (I had to read back through the thread to figure it out.)

I don't usually rig my lines for someone else to lower me. I have considered it when using the saw in the tree, but I'm usually on DRT then. Overally, I really don't want anyone (or trust anyone) around the anchor end of my SRT rope. Training them how to lower me without dropping me is just a step I haven't brought myself to take yet.

So have you tried cinching you SRT rope to a branch and bringing it back with a throwline yet? I've thought about it, but haven't tried it yet.

 

[outofmytree]

I've got "On Rope" on order. I've gotta say, I posted this question in what I feel to be the right place. And even still, I feel a little put down by a couple of the responses. If I knew what books/material to get, I wouldn't have posted here. lol I'm forever amazed at people flesh.

Thank you and God bless,

Jeff

Hi Jeff. The danger in posting in a forum full of prefessionals is you will have your question properly answered and you may not like what you hear. The questions you have asked tell me, and apparently some others, that you lack many essential basic skills. It is possible that 1% of climbers can learn what they need from a book but the other 99% need to be shown by a skilled trainer. You need to spend some time and money taking a basic climbing course. Master simple drt and the benifits of more sophisticated techniques will become apparent.

This is a dangerous industry.

The main problem with this forum is people criticizing instead of actually offering advice, mostly because I don't think they know the answer.

MTD you are entitled to your opinion. You are also completely mistaken.

 

[Garden Of Eden]

Hi Jeff. The danger in posting in a forum full of prefessionals is you will have your question properly answered and you may not like what you hear.

lol I understand that, however, it was not like I, number 1 posted this in the "expert" category. Or number 2 have a problem with hearing most anything. It's one thing to give advice, it's another completely to criticize. In my experience the internet is a place where "everyone" is an expert, and not many want to help. I'm not surprised that this arena has similar qualities. I'm not saying there aren't helpful people.

The questions you have asked tell me, and apparently some others, that you lack many essential basic skills.

I've been free climbing rocks for years, I've never thought much need for ropes until recently. Therefore, while experienced in climbing, I'm inexperienced in ropes. I had basic questions, that I was thinking could have simple answers, yet again, I'm to deal with the human side of things.

I've read lots of posts on this message board, and I apologize if I'm not quite the expert as others. I'm curious though, have you never asked basic questions? I can't be an expert on everything. lol

Have a blessed day,

Jeff

 

[outofmytree]

You present yourself as one who wants to learn......

................but it shows you are just here to whine!

You are being treated better than you deserve.

 

[outofmytree]

GoE, I reread all the posts in this thread and could not find any direct criticism of your questions or of you. The closest I could find was a recommendation that, based on the questions you asked, a climbing course was your best option.

You will find that some posters here care enough about you to tell it like it is. At the risk of repeating myself, learn basic tree climbing from a qualified instructor and then go play. It is unfortunate that we need an injury/fatality forum but... we have one. Please please don't become another post in that forum.

 

[Garden Of Eden]

You present yourself as one who wants to learn......

................but it shows you are just here to whine!

You are being treated better than you deserve.

Yup that's me, just asking questions, in the hopes that by page 3 I can whine. lol

I thought we should treat everyone the same, with love, compassion, caring and understanding. No matter how they treat us. An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind. Treated better than I deserve? So, I deserve to be treated worse, just because I state how I feel about something?

Of course, one could also read what a lot of people are posting about how harsh, and critical it can get on this board, and always expect the worst. lol but for the sake of uniformity and clarity in my mind, I won't.

Again, I appreciate what help has been given, thank you all. Even the people who didn't really help, I thank you too, maybe I'll learn something from it one day. I can only hope.

Have a great day.

Jeff

 

[Tree Pig]

GoE, I reread all the posts in this thread and could not find any direct criticism of your questions or of you. The closest I could find was a recommendation that, based on the questions you asked, a climbing course was your best option.

You will find that some posters here care enough about you to tell it like it is. At the risk of repeating myself, learn basic tree climbing from a qualified instructor and then go play. It is unfortunate that we need an injury/fatality forum but... we have one. Please please don't become another post in that forum.

I think you may be referring to my response and your correct it wasnt meant to be an insult. But from his question it appeared that his knowledge level was very basic if non existent. You will see by the posts of most everyone in here (including me) that we are more willing to help anyone but dont want to see anyone get hurt. Your question honestly sounded to me like you were trying to Run befor you learn to Walk. My response was "find someone to teach you" meaning get someone to give you some 1 on 1 basic training (rock climbing doesnt count).

The fact that you did not even understand some basic terms and theories in this post makes me believe even more that you need someone teaching you.
This forum is meant to help you learn, expand techniques and further your knowledge.
This forum is not meant to be your sole source of training and your only teacher, ITS JUST AN AID

 

[sawinredneck]

And yet again, I will STRESS how dangerous and difficult it is trying to learn by yourself! One knot tied wrong, and you can be DEAD or paralyzed for life!
I was fortunate that someone showedme what I was doing wrong tying my Blakes hitch, and I didn't even know it was wrong!
I had a house guest a couple of weeks ago, he showed me how to properly tie a VT. Now that I know it, I like it and it's simplicity and plan to use it now.

AND SRT is VERY expensive and gear intensive!

 

[Garden Of Eden]

So, I took the advice of members here and talked to my brother. He's a Marine who used to be in their Mountain division.

I was talking to him about SRT and DRT, and he said that the DRT, with one rope, isn't really a DRT, it's a Doubled Rope technique, as opposed to the Double Rope Technique.

I think I'm liking that. He says he just uses a prussic knot, above the Blake's, but a biner attached to a chain, then to his harness. And that is his safety. At the end of the Blake's, he ties a figure eight knot, to stop it from slipping. He said if in trees a lot, They only use 1/2 arbor rope, only like 6500lb test he said.

Does this make sense? I'm not sure I see too many flaws with it. He also gave me a really great idea with a sling-shot and a 2oz sinker with 50lb spiderwire. Looked sound to me.

Thanks everyone for your endless patience. I'm like a struggling doctor, I have none.

Jeff

 

[Garden Of Eden]

I have a paint file that I just made, but its a little large I guess to attach.

I'll describe as best I can.

I take one end of the rope, and tie a Bowline to a carabiner, then clip it to my harness. I then take what line is after the bowline, and tie it to the opposite side of the rope, coming out of the tree, with a Blake's hitch. Seperate from all this, I tie a prussic loop to the same side of the line I tied the Blake's to. Attaching a carabiner to the prussic, and a climbing strap/chain, I use another carabiner to attach to my harness. So the prussic is above the blake's but on the same line, running back to my harness.

Thats the way he explained it. I gotta say, I was climbing about 15-20 feet with it on saturday, and it felt real tight. Looked simple and stable too.

Thanks everyone,

Jeff

 

[arborist]

I have a paint file that I just made, but its a little large I guess to attach.

I'll describe as best I can.

I take one end of the rope, and tie a Bowline to a carabiner, then clip it to my harness. I then take what line is after the bowline, and tie it to the opposite side of the rope, coming out of the tree, with a Blake's hitch.

stop here.
FIRST,note where you should be tied into.
you want your rope around the main trunk of the tree,with a branch simply holding the rope from sliding down the trunk is best way i can describe it in writing anyway.making sure the trunk/branch is large enough to hold you.don't go to high(the type of tree is really important to understand.)
also making sure,it's not a tight crotch so that your rope binds-not to worry much tho.you figure that out once,and you'll never do it again lol.
NOW,with the tail end of left over over rope after your blakes.tie a figure 8.
the tail doesn't really slide with a blakes.but always.always.always.put an 8 here anyway.just like you place one at the end of the rope before going aloft.
its fast,easy free,safety insurance.you just do it.
now that your tied in.simply let go of the rope and work.this knot will NOT slide down the rope on its own.you have to slowly take it and pull it downward to start your decent.simply let go to stop again.the more you pull,the faster you descend.be careful!
here ya go:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2846623/how_to_tie_a_blakes_hitch_for_tree_climbing/

please be careful!
a good idea would be to at least pick up your phone book,and call a local tree service and see if you could meet with them in the morning.for insurance purposes,they may not invite you to a job site.but perhaps have a climber that could show you a few things first hand.
this would make a WORLD of difference,even if they don't enter a tree for you.

tips only!
not a climbing guide!

 

[Garden Of Eden]

Awesome. Looks like the way I been doing it. Does the bowline make sense?

Thanks again,

Jeff

 

[canopyboy]

A bowline is one way to terminate the end of the rope to your saddle. However, I don't think it's the knot of choice for most people for this application. A figure 8 on a bight (the knot, not the metal dealie bobber....) works well and what I started with, or a double fisherman's is what I use now. Some like the triple fisheman's, and some like an anchor knot.

I think a lot of the questions you're asking could be answered with The Tree Climber's Companion. If you haven't got it yet, go down to your local saw dealer, they probably have it. I think it was under $20 last time I looked. He has a good knot section (both how to tie and when to use), as well as a good way to rig a split tail DRT setup using the Blake's. Read it twice, then practice tying yourself in without leaving the ground, untie, read it again, repeat. Trust me, it sinks in and makes sense after awhile. Good luck, Darwin can be a bit rough at times....

 

[Garden Of Eden]

My wife has me spending all our money on fireworks and explosives. Since we pay bills in advance, she wants it all to go to some party this weekend. I'm supposed to be working all week, too much to do, but I think I'm gonna swing down and grab one tomorrow. Rain in the AM, so I'll have a few minutes.

I like the figure eight. I'm not too bad with knots, so it should be a pretty sweet deal. Thanks

Jeff