oldirty
Addicted to ArboristSite
its oldirty man.
Rope pulling training?
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its oldirty man.
Hey, don't lump us all together, just as all CUAs shouldn't be lumped together. We all come to the table with different skill sets and different attitudes.
I personally tend to spend lots of time with residents explaining why BC Hydro 'butchered' (their words not mine) their trees. After a while they seem to see that clearance around power lines is a necessity and that either they need to accept the pruning done by Hydro or the tree will have to be removed.
The ISA is a voluntary membership organization with aims to improve the quality of tree care, but it does not have the backing of right-to-title or right-to-practice legislation like many self regulating professions such as lawyers, doctors, engineers or professional foresters. As such, the standards to entry are going to be lower and broader.
I guess I've really derailed this discussion.
looks like oldirty killed another one :hmm3grin2orange:
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Clearance you have always been standup in your posts,
even though I disagree sometimes with your views, I have never
felt you to be cowardly. On the contrary spur threads and such
topics that bring you into scrutiny you have not been shy to relay
your feelings out in the open. I have not seen many utility trimmers
that last several years that are cowards. It takes a special breed
to go into the night to restore power in ice and wind.I have been
there many times and can say; cowards do not cut the mustard.
Some of these arborists are not cowards either but the problem
as I see it is personalities! Don't let them get to ya friend your
job is important to many that may not even know you have helped
their lights stay on!
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thats why I used the word "generally". As I have stated here before, I know some ISA people, a few who are CUAs as well. But when it comes to powerline work, who is the expert, a CUA, or someone who just wrote a test and never had to actually work around high voltage for 1200 hours? It is a joke, ISA people who may have never even started a saw, telling CUAs how to do thier job. I would like them to show me sometime, but they are not allowed, by law, why? Becasue they are not qualified, and as such cannot be certified. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
hay clearance keep up the good work man,and dont forget opinions are like buttholes, everyones got em. 
hay oldirty dont be a foreman to a committee of care-bears, do what ya do best and get em done!!
hay oldirty dont be a foreman to a committee of care-bears, do what ya do best and get em done!!
This is a common argument that all junior professional people have to face. Whose more qualified, the senior nurse w/ 35 years or the MD resident, the construction superintendent or the junior field engineer etc etc etc??
It's a double edged sword for that junior professional. You are supposed to be in charge, that is the position and responsibility your organization has given you and you are accountable, but those with any brains will know they don't have the depth/breadth of knowledge as the senior workers on the job. It becomes a delicate act of diplomacy for the junior to get the work done the way he wants it without having the crew mutiny. Been there, done that and not always with the best results.
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hey, dont know why this guy got up you bad but dont throw everyone into the negative basket ... you must realise that ISA is an American org and with that patriotism people feel they have some superiority in the arb world ... same as in the real world, they're mislead American's mate, that's all. They dont understand the effort required by others to gain their qualifications.
If you look carefully around the board you'll see the arguments between themselves about this and how many consider the ISA cert too easy to get.
It's a shame Tom Dunlap did that, maybe it's his way of chest beating and trying to make himself look important at your expense. Around here we call them boot lickers and brown nosers, it's the way many try to create that control web ... boys club type of thing. A stand up guy would have kicked that bosses azz and asked him to get his act together not stab you in the back.
Clearance, you also have to look at the entertainment value, some of the stuff is just fun too.
boo
ArboristSite Operative
some of these posts have been brilliant....
some may just be dumb...
mostly we do better than our politicians, we do something.
is that saying much?
I wonder how we would all get along on the job together ...
or maybe sitting around a campfire.... bring gloves and headgear
thread derailed maybe because the answer was too simple.
during this thread I found Clearance started to sound better, and Ekka sounded worse....
can't clump all americans together, that is worse than saying Clearance is the same as JPS.
some see a bigger picture, how big does the picture get?
some may just be dumb...
mostly we do better than our politicians, we do something.
is that saying much?
I wonder how we would all get along on the job together ...
or maybe sitting around a campfire.... bring gloves and headgear
thread derailed maybe because the answer was too simple.
during this thread I found Clearance started to sound better, and Ekka sounded worse....
can't clump all americans together, that is worse than saying Clearance is the same as JPS.
some see a bigger picture, how big does the picture get?
juststumps
ArboristSite Guru
clearance,,, your one of the guys that keep the machine running.........the people who complain about how and why you do your job,,, change their tune,,, when they are sitting in the dark !!!!! keep up the good work!!!!!
Bigus Termitius
Addicted to ArboristSite
You know that's right.
At ice storms you're like the greatest American hero, right along with the line crews. People go out of their way to stop you and tell you how they feel. When you're riding out first thing in the morning and the lights are out everywhere and you're listen to the radio and people are calling in with their plights and praying and thanking God for the crews, it touches you and motivates you....and then you stop and think: "Hey, where was this beautiful attitude when I stopped by to trim up or remove that tree that's got you knocked out?"
Ah well, I simply forgive that.
Forgive them, for they know not what they do, you haven't time to dwell on it, it's time to address the task at hand.
I'll get my shot at those trees now, only now they're bringing me out coffee, cocoa, and whatnot.
logbutcher
Addicted to ArboristSite
Unarborist Speaks
Interesting thread guys, appreciated for the insights.
Not an arborist , but 1000's of fallers over time , plenty of close calls thru stupidity, BUT never blaming anyone except he-who-runs-the-show HWRTS.
From the posts, many of you use rope to "pull" trees down where you want them. The message when I finally got it into the brain to learn to fell efficiently and correctly where I wanted the tree to fall, was : NO ropes. It was the Game of Logging GOL program. Instructors made you cut the mouth and hinge the right way, and use wedges ONLY to make a backleaner and/or side leaner go where you wanted. Plan the fall, plan the cuts, plan the wedgies ( no, not that ), plan your escape. It works and has worked for mee since the GOL.
Ropes work fine in climbing and belaying for a 200lb body dropping off a face. But no rope will take the tons of weight and moving ft-lbs in even a small 10" DBH falling wrong, or "pulling" it back .
Explain.
JMNSHO:monkey:
Interesting thread guys, appreciated for the insights.
Not an arborist , but 1000's of fallers over time
, plenty of close calls thru stupidity, BUT never blaming anyone except he-who-runs-the-show HWRTS. From the posts, many of you use rope to "pull" trees down where you want them. The message when I finally got it into the brain to learn to fell efficiently and correctly where I wanted the tree to fall, was : NO ropes. It was the Game of Logging GOL program. Instructors made you cut the mouth and hinge the right way, and use wedges ONLY to make a backleaner and/or side leaner go where you wanted. Plan the fall, plan the cuts, plan the wedgies ( no, not that
), plan your escape. It works and has worked for mee since the GOL. Ropes work fine in climbing and belaying for a 200lb body dropping off a face. But no rope will take the tons of weight and moving ft-lbs in even a small 10" DBH falling wrong, or "pulling" it back .
Explain.
JMNSHO:monkey:
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Interesting thread guys, appreciated for the insights.
Not an arborist , but 1000's of fallers over time
From the posts, many of you use rope to "pull" trees down where you want them. The message when I finally got it into the brain to learn to fell efficiently and correctly where I wanted the tree to fall, was : NO ropes. It was the Game of Logging GOL program. Instructors made you cut the mouth and hinge the right way, and use wedges ONLY to make a backleaner and/or side leaner go where you wanted. Plan the fall, plan the cuts, plan the wedgies ( no, not that
Ropes work fine in climbing and belaying for a 200lb body dropping off a face. But no rope will take the tons of weight and moving ft-lbs in even a small 10" DBH falling wrong, or "pulling" it back .
Explain.
JMNSHO:monkey:
It is called leverage,a high placed rope of adequate strength will
bring over the tree much safer than just a wedge! It takes less
pull at a high point to move the tree! Some ropes ratings these
days may surprise you as to their strength.
Dadatwins
Addicted to ArboristSite
No disrespect, fallers with wedges and jacks are a rare breed. But with modern ropes and some pullies & winches I can overcome lean, wind, rotted wood and a host of other variables when pulling over trees. With the use of a big shot I can do it all from the ground also. If I am dropping a tree in the woods there might be some room for error and I will use a wedge, but next to a $$$$ home or property, I will use all the rope and pullies available to make sure the tree goes just where I want it. JMHO
Rftreeman
Addicted to ArboristSite
not to mention that they are usually the first to complain about the power being off then once it's back on they complain that they cut to much to get the lines back up, can't win for losing.
Don't you have this just backwards? Once the tree gets going, no wedge or triangular hinge is going to have much effect on the trajectory. But well beyond the point where they become useless, a side rope, tied up high, could still swing the tree substantially. The leverage is huge and applied over a long arc of the fall.
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
From the posts, many of you use rope to "pull" trees down where you want them. The message when I finally got it into the brain to learn to fell efficiently and correctly where I wanted the tree to fall, was : NO ropes. It was the Game of Logging GOL program. Instructors made you cut the mouth and hinge the right way, and use wedges ONLY to make a backleaner and/or side leaner go where you wanted. Plan the fall, plan the cuts, plan the wedgies ( no, not that
Ropes work fine in climbing and belaying for a 200lb body dropping off a face. But no rope will take the tons of weight and moving ft-lbs in even a small 10" DBH falling wrong, or "pulling" it back .
Explain.
JMNSHO:monkey:
Have you seen this video?
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=38808
Like to have seen anyone hit that cone with wedges, jacks or otherwise.
One of the benefits of falling trees in the bush is the generosity of the direction you can take and low value targets if any.
Head wind on a back leaner with a wedge when the tree is against a house? No thanks.
Rftreeman
Addicted to ArboristSite
side rope, wedges or what ever, as long as it gets done safely then so be it, I have used ropes and wedges as well as a simple notch that is held on one side to drop leaner's, this is not rocket science, stop arguing about which method is better, people will use what ever method they are comfortable with regardless of what is posted here.
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