Saddle Set UP

[Burnham]

Dbeck, I surely don't mean that harness manufacturers are not giving us a good, safe product. Every ANSI approved model is drop tested to meet ANSI standards AS A UNIT. The harness as a whole, with life line attached at the appropriate point or points on the harness, meets that standard. Individual components may not. I have been told by New Tribe that the D rings used in their harness construction are 2500 lb. breaking strength. Sophia Sparks, co-owner of New Tribe, tells me that this is the case for all widely used D rings in the industry. New Tribe harnesses are carried by Sherrill, and are ANSI approved. If this part of my harness is stronger than I have been told by its manufacturer, I would be happy to learn it, but I am not concerned that my harness is unsafe.

 

[Stumper]

Correction-I wrote that Manilene/Unmanila is fibrilated polyETHylene it isn't.. It is fibrilated polyPROPylene. Melting point is actually over 300* but 50% strength loss occurrs in the 200*-225*F range. I doubt that anyone cares but since I brought it up I better get my facts straight!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I guess i should elaborate my point a bit.

ANSI is a consensus standard made up by people from the industry. A rather large commitee gets together and a lot of horse trading goes on.

People from Bartlets, Ashpundh and even Mark Chisholms Poppa to mention a few.

 

[TREETX]

This is mine. Stock bfly with a mod. Still haven't cut the stock one off.

I think this mod is not for those who thought the stock front strap was too thin.

The duct tape is hubert's hand written "uber 25Kn"

 

[TREETX]

another w/edelrid rope

 

[TREETX]

w/lanyard. It is new. I have been climbing like mike with a long rope, short rope system. Trying to diversify a bit.

 

[hillbilly]

TreeTX, is there a reason for keeping the original strap-rings,
or could you just as well replace them with the bow shackles
(instead of connecting the bow shackles to them) ?

Also, have you found that the front steel ring you added
wears harder on your carabiners than the strap would ?

Best Regards / hillbilly

 

[TREETX]

Never thought of removing the original rings and replacing with the bow shackles. Seems difficult though. I would have to cut the original rings off - they are thick. The bow shackles are pretty small. Would be tight fitting all of that webbing in there. It would fit though. Have you seen it done??

The aluminum ring in front doesn't seem to cause any wear yet. I have only had it a month. I see more potential problems with the ring or krab sliding against the shackles.

I guess the ring is steel, it is light though.

Maybe cutting out the original rings and replacing with the shackles would eliminate the distance and problem of the ring sliding over the shackle.

 

[TREETX]

Maybe cutting out the original rings and replacing with the shackles would eliminate the distance and problem of the ring sliding over the shackle.

Just the blue part would have to go in the shackle the red is the stock strap.

 

[hillbilly]

No, I've never seen anyone else do it, however it is the way I plan on replacing my strap when the time comes.
I've already tried fitting bow-shackels in paralell with the
existing rings and also connecting some webbing, it worked.
I used larger shackels than the ones you have in the pictures.
They were almost as large as the existing rings, but 10 mm thick,
a bit thinner than the rings, gap was 20 mm, breking at 42 kN.
Good luck...and yes I encourage no one to try this...I just inform
how it could be done...if anyone would like to try it in theory

 

[TREETX]

where can one buy these bow shackles?

 

[hillbilly]

There is nothing special about them other than being larger
than the ones in your pictures. So anywhere where you
can by rated bow shackels would do. I bought mine
at a sailer's shop in Stockholm, not much use to you.
So how about
www.bosunsupplies.com, other members of this board seem to shop there.

 

[Mahk]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
[... interesting topics about breaking strength of a tool in a test situation and the actual breaking strength when it is in an actual working situation.

Do you expect manufacturers to test the products before they put them on the market?

...site five tests that have been done with droping loads on arborists climbing systems, as they are being used today. Good luck!
I go to ISA sanctioned climbing events and cringe at some of the techniques they allow. [/B]

Mike;

Jean Arteau and Ian Langlais presented some results from drop tests that they and others had done on some specific arborists' climbing systems. Tests included five hitches (4 coil Prusik, Blake's, 4 coil Distel, 6 coil Prusik and 6 coil Klemheist); CMI asacenders with a Mar Bar kit and extendable lanyard; Lock-Jack; Mimono; Gri-gri; I'd; standard friction saver; friction saver with built-in energy absorber; pole choker; and an adjustable friction saver.

As you point out, all of these tests were done after the products had been widely used by working arborists and the tests were done by an independant research team, not by the manufacturer.

I called New England Ropes to see what their test procedure is. All of the strength tests are done in-house. Once the product meets these requirements, prototypes are sent to a number of people to do field testing. The feedback from these field tests will either confirm the performance of the product or prompt changes to the makeup of the product.

What are some of the techniques that you cringe at at ISA events?



Regarding ANSI Z133.1 - 2000, an aerial lift operator is required to wear fall protection (Z 133.1 6.2.2). A climber in a tree wears a work-positioning saddle and lanyard (Z 133.1 3.4 and 8.7.2) .

Hardware is supposed to be rated at 5,000 pounds ( Z133.1 3.13 and 8.7.5 and 8.7.6). Ropes are to be rated at 5,400 pounds (Z 133.1 3.5 and 8.7.4). The rope/cord used to form a prusik loop or split tail for a closed climbing hitch can be less than 5,400 pounds because in these applications the rope/cord is doubled when it is in use. But, the loop must meet the 5,400 pound requirement (Z 133.1 8.7.4). Thus the actual tensile strength of the rope/cord itself must be at least half of that, or 2,700 pounds.


Mahk

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Nate, have you thought of putting one of those Petzl sealed swivles on the new peice of webbing instead of the big fat ring?

 

[Stumper]

I finally got around to taking a picture.

 

[Stumper]

This is my current setup on a Weaver1040. I intend to upgrade to a more comfortable saddle soon. (The 1040 is comfy enough when working with my weight mostly on the lanyard but the hip pinch is awful when swinging on the climbing line.) The lanyard pictured is my new 14 foot BEDA (Bare Ended-Double Adjusting). The yellow line is my chainsaw lanyard, the other lines are eyespliced 3/8" nylon for light in-tree rigging.

 

[lync]

Simple solution

When the sliding strap on my butterfly wears out , I thought I would just use a piece of climbing line, double fishermans knot to each of the stock aluminum rings. Maybe throw a piece of clear tubing over it (chaffing gear) to minimize wear. Any reason this isn't a good fix?

Corey

 

[Tim Gardner]

I used 16 strand to mod my saddle after seeing a fellow AS member had done it. The only problem is that it is VERY slippery. While that is a good thing while pulling rope through a FS it is kind of freaky when you suddenly tilt while getting into position. The webbing I had used before the rope mod gave the right amount of friction to stay in place but allowed for easy movement. Maybe after it has been in use for a little while it will work better.

 

[BigJohn]

You'll get used to the easy mobility of the new strap or "slipperyness". A buddy of mine has a butterfly and been tying a piece of static line in there since it was new. The straps used to be a bit too long. I just got a butterfly in the mail yesterday. The strap looks to be a bit shorter. With just having surgery yesterday I couldnt really try it. My right arm was still paralyzed when I tried it with some reluctant help from my girlfriend.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Thanks for the mod info and picture John. I hope you recover soon. I know you are looking forward to climbing with the butterfly. Let us know what you think of it.