Safe Falling of rotting Ash

[gggGary]

Sweet pic and that's some scary business that vibration brought it down.

Fer sher adds a ! to that beat up ole ash tree back in the woods. My guess was good, 30" DABH Good news it's leaning a good felling direction. bit more lean than the pic hints at, pines are vertical.

looked around and counted about 6-7 more 12" to 20" that need to come down yet. 4 here,

and 3-4 up on another fence line. Those are on neighbors property but leaning towards mine. Most are recent dead had leaves last summer.
No end of fun, well mebby when the temps are up near freezing again.
The good news is I got a 7K # skidsteer on snows for a pull or guide rope anchor .

 

[Westboastfaller]

Tell us more about your two stage falling. Doesn’t sound like something to do on a dead ash - maybe a dying ash. I have done the 90 degree second cut many times when I misread a lean and stuck my saw.

As to a block face, when I think the wood is still strong and flexible enough, I have used a trapezoid face sometimes coupled with a vertical cut behind the hinge, all to define a taller hinge either to slow the fall or keep the hinge intact as long as possible. It doesn’t always work .

Ron

Didn't have Ash in BC or Alberta but have only cut them in South England.
They are also all dying fast from a top die-back disease.
Maybe cut 50-80 only and they were alive and dying ones where density was reduced by 1/3. 11ft lengths for that species for a forwarder. Challenging job not to make big holes but yet get trees down.

So I have used the re-direct method to mitigate a side lean on jobs such as utility lines & fall & burn.
It's got its place with the right tree conditions just as a block notch has and no it doesn't work all the time with all species but my options stop there for me when on the job.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Fer sher adds a ! to that beat up ole ash tree back in the woods. My guess was good, 30" DABH Good news it's leaning a good felling direction. bit more lean than the pic hints at, pines are vertical.
View attachment 956529
looked around and counted about 6-7 more 12" to 20" that need to come down yet. 4 here,
View attachment 956530
and 3-4 up on another fence line. Those are on neighbors property but leaning towards mine. Most are recent dead had leaves last summer.
No end of fun, well mebby when the temps are up near freezing again.
The good news is I got a 7K # skidsteer on snows for a pull or guide rope anchor .

Cut the one leaner high enough and it will jump the fence

 

[rwoods]

Some of today's falling to create shooting lanes for a sporting clays course.


Just when you think you have them figured out - two more ash hazards:

Small dead ash and hinge didn't break. That funky looking stump in the foreground is from a small ash that wanted to hang on to the stump. No equipment handy and little time for a stuck saw, so I whittled on the downed stem top and bottom until it let go leaving a strange looking stump.


Barber chair - not detected by me, the interior on one side had that cellular appearance instead of being fibrous. It broke during the cut causing the good side to chair about 6' above the cut.


Last large ash of the day - center stage leaning left. > 20" nature downed red oak that I severed from the roots - to the left. I snapped a good wedge freeing my saw while cutting the top off of it. 20" nature hung red oak that I also severed from the roots.


Put the hung red oak down with the ash.



Only twenty minutes left before they lock the gates and with no equipment available, I left these two standing despite the big red Xs on them. I'm just a volunteer taking enough risks as it is without stepping into this unsprung trap. Nice tall and straight 20" poplar in the foreground that they wanted removed.


Some would look at this patch and say what a mess with stems going all over the place instead of a nice parallel lay, but actually it is a thought out plan to minimize damage to the remaining trees and to be able to access and skid out the larger stems for firewood processing. I enjoy both the challenges of directional falling and the reverse "pick up sticks" game you play to organize falling so you can retrieve; both with the intent to lessen collateral damage. Dead ash just adds a little extra excitement.

Ron

 

[Oletrapper]

No stock answer to your question beyond every tree may kill you, especially dead ash. My dead ash tactics are to make sure you have a clear overhead where you stand, the clearest falling direction as possible, cut them quick, and run - don't look back - keep putting as much distance as you can from the stump - it is amazing how far stuff will travel through the air. If you can leave the crusty ones to nature, then leave them.

I recently cut this one with the lean. First movement and the top (in the foreground) broke off about 15' up; it landed just feet from the stump leaving a stem that I had to wedge over.

View attachment 955303

Ron

That's ugly right there now! Definitely a widow maker! Hope that is your road their laying on. LOL

 

[rwoods]

That's ugly right there now! Definitely a widow maker! Hope that is your road their laying on. LOL

Interior road at government owned shooting range. Those in charge didn’t care. They were just happy to find someone willing to cut their hazard trees.

Ron

 

[Huntaholic]

Theres no safe way to cut a dead ash. Its a cocked gun with a hair trigger and a Sunday morning drunk with the shakes holding the gun. Multiple times Ive had my helper take his belt off and tie it to mine and have him watch up while I make the felling cuts. One tug on that belt and Im outta there! Hard leaning trees don't scare me, I can cut them and never pull a splinter. Dead ash are another ballgame entirely.

 

[Storm56]

There have been 2 people killed in the last 15 months within 12 miles of my home felling ash. One was a very experienced logger. I have decided to let nature take care of the few dead ash I have left. Up until last year I carefully felled them. Not worth getting injured or killed over when there are plenty of far less dangerous trees that work for me.

 

[rwoods]

There have been 2 people killed in the last 15 months within 12 miles of my home felling ash. One was a very experienced logger. I have decided to let nature take care of the few dead ash I have left. Up until last year I carefully felled them. Not worth getting injured or killed over when there are plenty of far less dangerous trees that work for me.

Can’t hit the like button on the first part, but certainly can with the second.

The ash I am falling at the shooting range are hazard trees to those who will be using the range. The others can just fall in place.

Ron

 

[Tigwelder83]

There have been 2 people killed in the last 15 months within 12 miles of my home felling ash. One was a very experienced logger. I have decided to let nature take care of the few dead ash I have left. Up until last year I carefully felled them. Not worth getting injured or killed over when there are plenty of far less dangerous trees that work for me.

I know of a very reputable logging company that isn't doing any ash sales for that reason. In my business that isn't really an option as I do residential removals. But very sound logic!

 

[ShermanC]

It 100% depends on the situation. If the tree has been dead for awhile and the branches are caught up in other trees, then I will use a piece of equipment and "preload" the tree by standing the equipment's front wheels off the ground by a foot or so. The weight of the equipment "pushes" the tree the first 5 feet or so down. I use a pre cleared path to get out of the falling debris area. If I can't get equipment to it I will use a throw line and 2 ropes with pullys or come alongs. When the tree starts to go I use the same pre cleared path. Preparation!!!!! is the key. CJ

You said it so well CJ...preparation is the key.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Some of today's falling to create shooting lanes for a sporting clays course.


Just when you think you have them figured out - two more ash hazards:

Small dead ash and hinge didn't break. That funky looking stump in the foreground is from a small ash that wanted to hang on to the stump. No equipment handy and little time for a stuck saw, so I whittled on the downed stem top and bottom until it let go leaving a strange looking stump.
View attachment 956676

Barber chair - not detected by me, the interior on one side had that cellular appearance instead of being fibrous. It broke during the cut causing the good side to chair about 6' above the cut.
View attachment 956678

Last large ash of the day - center stage leaning left. > 20" nature downed red oak that I severed from the roots - to the left. I snapped a good wedge freeing my saw while cutting the top off of it. 20" nature hung red oak that I also severed from the roots.
View attachment 956690

Put the hung red oak down with the ash.

View attachment 956692

Only twenty minutes left before they lock the gates and with no equipment available, I left these two standing despite the big red Xs on them. I'm just a volunteer taking enough risks as it is without stepping into this unsprung trap. Nice tall and straight 20" poplar in the foreground that they wanted removed.
View attachment 956699

Some would look at this patch and say what a mess with stems going all over the place instead of a nice parallel lay, but actually it is a thought out plan to minimize damage to the remaining trees and to be able to access and skid out the larger stems for firewood processing. I enjoy both the challenges of directional falling and the reverse "pick up sticks" game you play to organize falling so you can retrieve; both with the intent to lessen collateral damage. Dead ash just adds a little extra excitement.

Ron

It's selective close/closed canopy timber falling. Can't expect anyone to lay them in like sardines.

What caused the barber chair? Cut closed, too much hinge or existing split?

 

[Huntaholic]

It's selective close/closed canopy timber falling. Can't expect anyone to lay them in like sardines.

What caused the barber chair? Cut closed, too much hinge or existing split?

Its an ash, that's all that can be said about it. If you don't know EXACTLY what youre doing it will happen more times than not with an ash. My Daddy cut more timber than anybody I know, including myself, but bless his heart, he could NOT cut an ash! Every time he got hurt or tore a saw up, it was an ash that did it! I learned how to cut them by watching how he did it, AND DOING IT DIFFERENT FROM HIM. 1st of all, he almost never used a wedge, I almost always do on ash. 2nd, he never bore cut an ash, I always bore cut them. 3rd, he always had a step stump, back cut higher than face cut, I always try to match my cuts. He taught me how to cut them by watching what he did and doing it different.
I watched him totally destroy a brand new 372xp once lol. He got hung up in the cut, it barberchaired up about 20ft then the trunk fell off the chair back completely horizontal and absolutely destroyed that new saw still hung in the cut.

 

[rwoods]

It's selective close/closed canopy timber falling. Can't expect anyone to lay them in like sardines.

What caused the barber chair? Cut closed, too much hinge or existing split?

wbf,
Probably two things - 1) the compression wood on the left and face side was dry rotten and crumbled and 2) slow cutting on my part. My face cuts matched so there wasn’t a Dutchman. I didn’t check but possibly my back cut was more favorable to the left side as I often set my hinge thickness with the tip and then pull into the power head side. Apparently it was easier for this tree to split vertically than to flex the uncut hinge. If I had cut faster and stayed with it after the first movement, it might not have barber chaired but I left before the chair. As unpredictable as these dead trees are, especially dropping limbs or the entire top, I don’t hang around when it moves.

Ash is strange. I have very limited experience with healthy ash but the few plate size ones I have cut seem to split easily. On the other hand the 100 or so dying ash I have cut seem to hold together pretty well as well as the many sound dead ash - they usually fall like you want them with a quick cut and a Coos Bay approach or a bore cut. The dry rotted ones are totally unpredictable and really dangerous regardless of my cutting methods. I had judged this one to be dead but sound. It proved me wrong.

Ron

 

[Westboastfaller]

wbf,
Probably two things - 1) the compression wood on the left and face side was dry rotten and crumbled and 2) slow cutting on my part. My face cuts matched so there wasn’t a Dutchman. I didn’t check but possibly my back cut was more favorable to the left side as I often set my hinge thickness with the tip and then pull into the power head side. Apparently it was easier for this tree to split vertically than to flex the uncut hinge. If I had cut faster and stayed with it after the first movement, it might not have barber chaired but I left before the chair. As unpredictable as these dead trees are, especially dropping limbs or the entire top, I don’t hang around when it moves.

Ash is strange. I have very limited experience with healthy ash but the few plate size ones I have cut seem to split easily. On the other hand the 100 or so dying ash I have cut seem to hold together pretty well as well as the many sound dead ash - they usually fall like you want them with a quick cut and a Coos Bay approach or a bore cut. The dry rotted ones are totally unpredictable and really dangerous regardless of my cutting methods. I had judged this one to be dead but sound. It proved me wrong.

Ron

These definitely seem to be the exception as my experience is barber chairs seldom happen in rotting trees - especially heart rot trees unless the trunk is contorted.
Few things will play into that though such as top weight and lean.
Which is all strange as the live sapwood is where it all happens anyway?

Always cut up the sapwood first with unpredictable species and such. Once you pass the back on the back cut then finish ringing the tree of sapwood.
Stick your dogs in the mouth off the second corner, finish the sapwood and then go to the back again.
You can always beavertail the guts out also from different positions to help speed the cut of the end.

 

[rwoods]

These definitely seem to be the exception as my experience is barber chairs seldom happen in rotting trees - especially heart rot trees unless the trunk is contorted.
Few things will play into that though such as top weight and lean.
Which is all strange as the live sapwood is where it all happens anyway?

Always cut up the sapwood first with unpredictable species and such. Once you pass the back on the back cut then finish ringing the tree of sapwood.
Stick your dogs in the mouth off the second corner, finish the sapwood and then go to the back again.
You can always beavertail the guts out also from different positions to help speed the cut.

>75% across the stem was solid and fibrous. <25% (all on one side) was what I would call dry rot. I believe the rot collapse triggering the movement, but I don't really know. I could have stayed on it and put it down, but it had overhead limbs, so I left. I am no expert, particularly with ash, but in my experience the fresher the tree the more likely it is to split. This is the only dead ash that I have ever experienced a barber chair. The rotten ones explode. The dead ones get brittle first.

Ron

 

[TheJollyLogger]

wbf,
Probably two things - 1) the compression wood on the left and face side was dry rotten and crumbled and 2) slow cutting on my part. My face cuts matched so there wasn’t a Dutchman. I didn’t check but possibly my back cut was more favorable to the left side as I often set my hinge thickness with the tip and then pull into the power head side. Apparently it was easier for this tree to split vertically than to flex the uncut hinge. If I had cut faster and stayed with it after the first movement, it might not have barber chaired but I left before the chair. As unpredictable as these dead trees are, especially dropping limbs or the entire top, I don’t hang around when it moves.

Ash is strange. I have very limited experience with healthy ash but the few plate size ones I have cut seem to split easily. On the other hand the 100 or so dying ash I have cut seem to hold together pretty well as well as the many sound dead ash - they usually fall like you want them with a quick cut and a Coos Bay approach or a bore cut. The dry rotted ones are totally unpredictable and really dangerous regardless of my cutting methods. I had judged this one to be dead but sound. It proved me wrong.

Ron

Just my thoughts on a Coos bay... the purpose in my eyes is too reduce the amount of tension wood you have to cut to set the hinge. If you choose to make that cut, you are committed and you race to the hinge and get out, there is no steering involved, and if you cut slow you have just negated the advantage that cut has. One of the reasons I prefer a bore cut in most of those situations.

 

[rwoods]

No doubt, slow cuts can be killers.
Ron

 

[kenmbz]

I felled one of the dead ash and it threw a 6 foot long vertical slab backwards as it barberchaired.
Once I had it cut enough to fall I heard the crack and made my exit. About 30 seconds later the tree went and fell exactly where I wanted it too, with the wood slab right where I would have been standing if i was not paying attention.
That was a 30"+ inch and I still have the slab sitting around.

These dead ash are so unpredictable that I paid someone with a cherry picker to come in and top some of them as they were close to other trees and buildings,

 

[Cricket]

I assume that I am not the only one who does this, I notch and back cut but leave a little and walk away and let the next good wind finish the job so I am away from the bad ones. I have had it where I just sat down with a cold one and I heard the thump in the wood stand well away from me.

Hah! I've done this - but mostly because I'm a major chickenshit.