Safest Method of Entry

[jomoco]

Guy, just curious, but why is crane an option here. everyone knows it's illegal to ride the hook, thereby, crane is a moot point. you can't do it anyway.
or is this your way of finding out how many still do ride hooks?
-Ralph

Wrong,

The ANSI Z133 standards for crane use in trees was changed a few years ago to allow climbers to ride the hook as long as specific safety criteria are met.

This is not an endorsement for crane entry to a tree, just a fact I keep having to point out to city and county inspectors, supervisors etc.

The link below is proof

http://treecareindustry.org/Public/gov_standards_z133.htm

Work Safe!

jomoco

 

[Soul Assassin]

WTF?

What about you put your real location down, coz it aint Earth. Oh I get it, you're a space cadet and just dropped in. OK opcorn: I'll explain.

Pantin is a device strapped to your foot so you can ascend a rope, as you push down with ya foot it locks the rope and you go up.

Climbers in the context you have used above mean spikes or spurs (hooks and climbing irons too I suppose), so why would you have a pantin on when you have spikes on? Then have all that on and try to go up a ladder? WTF?

Perhaps you need to elaborate so us mere earthlings can understand what you mean.

OK, no flame here. I live in Colorado, have a degree in Forestry from SUNY-ESF. I've used a Pantin for a year and a half now, I know how they work. I also have 15 plus years in the forestry field from line clearence to owning my own company, I got a bad start on the board and publicly apologized, and admitted I was a bonehead at that time. Bad day, I don't know.

I've used my Ghecko climbers and my pantin seperately. I was thinking how great it would be if I could use them both at once, which I know they are not designed for. Soooo, in a safe environment, I tried to do that using various adjustments, I never found a safe mixture. See, there have been times when I would ascend a tree with the Pantin, and would like to have then had my climbers on so I could have more stability, without removing the pantin then sending up the climbers etc....I'm always looking for safer, better ways to do my job, and I like to "think outside the box" if it is reasonable and safe. I have several ideas that I think I could market, that make climbing safer and easier. About five years ago, while buying equipment, it seemed to me IMHO, that much of the gear used by arborists was outdated, or not designed specifically for tre care. For example, the Buckingham climbers.........I actually bought a pair...the leather stretched so bad and the angle of the "spikes " were meant for telephone poles. IMHO, they didn't fit for the job I was doing, then the Ghecko climbers came on scene. Big difference.

BTW- Thanks for all the insults and personal attacks even after I apologised. I even got called a douche, lol. You know who you are, and I bet the person one thousand dollars they would never say that to my face. And EKKA, the reason I didn't reply quickly, was I was out running my business, taking care of my many, many happy customers. lol.

 

[begleytree]

Wrong,

(snip)
jomoco

perhaps, but the way ansi is written and the way things work out in the field, can be very different things.
-Ralph

 

[OTG BOSTON]

wrong!

Wrong,

The ANSI Z133 standards for crane use in trees was changed a few years ago to allow climbers to ride the hook as long as specific safety criteria are met.

This is not an endorsement for crane entry to a tree, just a fact I keep having to point out to city and county inspectors, supervisors etc.

The link below is proof

http://treecareindustry.org/Public/gov_standards_z133.htm

Work Safe!

jomoco

You cannot ride the hook but you are allowed to tie in above the ball (designated anchor point)

 

[jomoco]

perhaps, but the way ansi is written and the way things work out in the field, can be very different things.
-Ralph

Arborists operating cranes should take particular note of the brand-new section on cranes, reproduced in full below. The part in italics was the only requirement conveyed in the 1994 revision of Z133:

“Riding the load line of a crane while it is under load tension shall be prohibited, except for circumstances outlined [below]. “A qualified arborist may be hoisted into position utilizing the crane, provided that he/she is tied in with an arborist climbing line and arborist saddle meeting the requirements of this Standard and secured to a designated anchor point on the boom or line.

The following procedures shall be followed when an arborist is to be lifted by a crane: “The person specifically responsible for the work shall only authorize the use of a crane when he/she has determined that it is the safest and most practical way to perform the work or gain access to the tree. Such authorization should be made in writing and be retained at the job site. “The crane operator shall be familiar with the potential hazards and operational techniques encountered in tree work.

“The arborist climbing line shall be secured to the crane in such a way that it does not interfere with the function of any damage-prevention or warning device on the crane, and so that no part of the crane compromises the climbing line or any other component of the climbing system. “The crane operator and the person responsible for the work to be performed shall meet prior to the work to review procedures to be followed. If the work involves a signal person and/or arborist being lifted in addition to the person responsible for the work, they shall participate in the review.

“Communication between the crane operator and the arborist being lifted shall be maintained either directly or through the appointed signal person.

“The crane shall be supported on a firm surface and maintained in a level position. The crane operator shall use blocking or other means if necessary so that the support medium does not exceed its load-bearing capabilities. When provided, outriggers shall be extended and properly set. Lifting of arborists shall not be permitted when the crane is supported solely on its tires.

“The crane operator shall test the adequacy of footing prior to any lifting. A green log weight chart should be available to the crew.

“The lifting and supporting shall be made under controlled conditions and under the direction of the arborist or an appointed signal person.

“The crane operator shall remain at the controls when the arborist is attached to the crane.

“The crane boom and load line shall be moved in a slow, controlled, cautious manner with no sudden movements when the arborist is attached. The lifting or lowering speed shall not exceed 100 feet per minute. The crane shall be operated so that lowering is power-controlled.

“The crane carrier shall not travel at any time while the arborist is attached.

“The arborist shall be detached from the crane any time it is under load tension. EXCEPTION: The person specifically responsible for the work shall only allow the arborist to remain attached to the crane while it is under load when it is determined that all reasonably possible alternative methods are inaccessible and attachment to the subject tree would create a greater safety risk due to its hazardous condition. Possible alternative methods include, but are not limited to:

securing to the tree and detaching from the crane before it comes under load;
use of a second crane;
use of an aerial lift device;
use of an adjacent tree."


With all due respect, you were posting incorrect info and furthering it to both beginners, veterans and anyone else reading it.

Crane removals are a whole different ball game that require special techniques and lots of forethought and calculation, it is in my opinion an area deserving of much more teaching and study in the tree industry.

Misinformation definitely doesn't help the matter.

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[OTG BOSTON]

With all due respect, you were posting incorrect info and furthering it to both beginners, veterans and anyone else reading it.

Crane removals are a whole different ball game that require special techniques and lots of forethought and calculation, it is in my opinion an area deserving of much more teaching and study in the tree industry.

Misinformation definitely doesn't help the matter.

Respectfully,

jomoco

Well said, but you can't "ride the hook" like you posted earlier either.............

 

[jomoco]

Wrong Again

Well said, but you can't "ride the hook" like you posted earlier either.............

It is perfectly fine and allowable to tie into the hook as long as you use a certified arborist rope and saddle and the gate to the hook is locked with a pin, and that the hook is only being used to position the climber in the tree and nothing else at that moment.

I invite you to:

Read ANSI Z133 sections 5.791-5.7912

Call TCIA and talk to either Peter Gerstenberger or Bob Rouse as I have done.

I have done thousands of removals with cranes from 15-300 ton capacities, and I like to think that I know what I'm talking about at the seminars where I've taught and demonstrated proper crane removal techniques for the Professional Tree Care Association here in San Diego.

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[adam]

OK, no flame here. I live in Colorado, have a degree in Forestry from SUNY-ESF. I've used a Pantin for a year and a half now, I know how they work. I also have 15 plus years in the forestry field from line clearence to owning my own company, I got a bad start on the board and publicly apologized, and admitted I was a bonehead at that time. Bad day, I don't know.

I've used my Ghecko climbers and my pantin seperately. I was thinking how great it would be if I could use them both at once, which I know they are not designed for. Soooo, in a safe environment, I tried to do that using various adjustments, I never found a safe mixture. See, there have been times when I would ascend a tree with the Pantin, and would like to have then had my climbers on so I could have more stability, without removing the pantin then sending up the climbers etc....I'm always looking for safer, better ways to do my job, and I like to "think outside the box" if it is reasonable and safe. I have several ideas that I think I could market, that make climbing safer and easier. About five years ago, while buying equipment, it seemed to me IMHO, that much of the gear used by arborists was outdated, or not designed specifically for tre care. For example, the Buckingham climbers.........I actually bought a pair...the leather stretched so bad and the angle of the "spikes " were meant for telephone poles. IMHO, they didn't fit for the job I was doing, then the Ghecko climbers came on scene. Big difference.

BTW- Thanks for all the insults and personal attacks even after I apologised. I even got called a douche, lol. You know who you are, and I bet the person one thousand dollars they would never say that to my face. And EKKA, the reason I didn't reply quickly, was I was out running my business, taking care of my many, many happy customers. lol.

I've had the same problem many times removing large limbs or stems. I had to access tree without spikes and then put them on while up on the tree in order to remove safely stem (or limb) in question. Sometimes it was descending or swinging from neighbor tree into the tree to be removed. Also never solved the problem. Putting spurs on while up there can be quite challanging. I love my Buckinghams by the way.

 

[DonnyO]

It is perfectly fine and allowable to tie into the hook as long as you use a certified arborist rope and saddle and the gate to the hook is locked with a pin, and that the hook is only being used to position the climber in the tree and nothing else at that moment.

THAT sounds productive:bang:

 

[oldirty]

dont feel like reading the whole thread but

as much as i dont like ladders myself, they are good for leaning up against a palm tree to work the fronds out and do your trim. palm trees suck but not as much as the big nasty citrus rat that comes flying down your arm and out the palm. ever sword (chainsaw) fight a citrus rat in a palm tree? man them pricks are nasty.




oldirty

 

[diltree]

Jomoco,

All do respect your wrong about being allowed to tie on to the ball and hook

OSHA sets this rule and it is clearly stated in ANSI 133

“Riding the load line of a crane while it is under load tension shall be prohibited, except for circumstances outlined [below]. “A qualified arborist may be hoisted into position utilizing the crane, provided that he/she is tied in with an arborist climbing line and arborist saddle meeting the requirements of this Standard and secured to a designated anchor point on the boom or line. "

Pay close attention to the last line " anchor point on the boom or Line" That means tieing into a point on the boom tip or a friction hitch attached to the line....not the ball and hook

 

[DonnyO]

I dunno dil

His credentials look pretty fierce.

Don't injure your arm Jomoco, patting oneself on the back can lead to repetitive stress injury.

 

[jomoco]

Wrong once again

Jomoco,

All do respect your wrong about being allowed to tie on to the ball and hook

OSHA sets this rule and it is clearly stated in ANSI 133

“Riding the load line of a crane while it is under load tension shall be prohibited, except for circumstances outlined [below]. “A qualified arborist may be hoisted into position utilizing the crane, provided that he/she is tied in with an arborist climbing line and arborist saddle meeting the requirements of this Standard and secured to a designated anchor point on the boom or line. "

Pay close attention to the last line " anchor point on the boom or Line" That means tieing into a point on the boom tip or a friction hitch attached to the line....not the ball and hook

Read what you posted, ( while it is under load tension ) and even that is allowed under certain conditions.

Again, I invite any or all of you to call TCIA ( used to be the National Arborist Association ) and talk to their safety experts about this matter, I encourage you to do so.

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[DonnyO]

Read what you posted, ( while it is under load tension ) and even that is allowed under certain conditions.

Again, I invite any or all of you to call TCIA ( used to be the National Arborist Association ) and talk to their safety experts about this matter, I encourage you to do so.

Respectfully,

jomoco

This arguement makes No sense.

 

[diltree]

“A qualified arborist may be hoisted into position utilizing the crane, provided that he/she is tied in with an arborist climbing line and arborist saddle meeting the requirements of this Standard and secured to a designated anchor point on the boom or line. "


Your interpretation is incorrect...under tension there is no riding the boom tip nor the line

Its pretty clear this quote is directly from the ansi material you are referring us to, it clearly states boom or line...not the ball and hook

I am a certified and licensed class one hoisting engineer, I invite you to show me any literature by osha or ansi that states you can tie into the ball and hook

 

[DonnyO]

“A qualified arborist may be hoisted into position utilizing the crane, provided that he/she is tied in with an arborist climbing line and arborist saddle meeting the requirements of this Standard and secured to a designated anchor point on the boom or line. "


Your interpretation is incorrect...under tension there is no riding the boom tip nor the line

Its pretty clear this quote is directly from the ansi material you are referring us to, it clearly states boom or line...not the ball and hook

I am a certified and licensed class one hoisting engineer, I invite you to show me any literature by osha or ansi that states you can tie into the ball and hook

What do you mean dil? It all right here in black and white:

Read what you posted, ( while it is under load tension ) and even that is allowed under certain conditions.

Again, I invite any or all of you to call TCIA ( used to be the National Arborist Association ) and talk to their safety experts about this matter, I encourage you to do so.

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[oldirty]

man

this is like arguing about wearing ppe.

dil how many climbers you put in the tree off your crane? you expect some poor schmoe to climb his way up through a prickly spruce tree, taking far longer than your willing to wait, just to get to the spot to put the sling on?

we all know you should have all the ppe on ( i wear it ) but some people dont.

would you wait the hour for a climber to get into position or put him on the ball and get him to the spot pronto?

stop pissing on each other leg and get over it.

i personally like to race the ball to the spot but on the odd occasion i take the free ride cause i dont feel like battling my way through all the brush and what not.

we all know if we followed the osha guidelines to a T that nothing would get done. and soon you'd be selling the crane cause your not working enough or charging to much just to use it.

whatever man, this arguement stinks. lets argue about how much a stihl chainsaw sucks and dolmar is making a comeback but how not many saws can touch a husky xp.

hows that for staring a new riot?


ol dirty

 

[diltree]

Jomco...

http://www.treecareindustry.org/Public/gov_standards_z133.htm

Not that TCIA is the authority on safe crane operation

But I couldn't find anything about tieing into the ball and hook, becoming an excepted practice

It does state the boom or line as a acceptable tie in point though!

 

[Soul Assassin]

To each thier own

"I love my Buckinghams by the way"

No problem with that, I just found the leather to stretch while in a tree, and the "spikes" could be at a better angle and design. Just my 2 cents.

 

[diltree]

Old Dirty,

Im just trying to get to 400 posts