It almost looks like the chain on there is a smaller gauge than the bar, or the bar is so wallered out as to be junk. Also those teeth are still not sharp yet and by the time they get filed sharp the rakers probably need to be taken down.
Saw cutting to the right
- Thread starter Big Edgar
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keep filing until the cutting edge is straight and clean. On a semi chisel or safety or whatever tooth like that it wont be perfectly straight because the tooth is rounded on the side, but if there is any jagged ragged on the cutting edge (the top and the side) it could be sharper. Its all relative - and all chains are just going to get dull again. New files every so often make life better, especially if they are the right size for the chain. From your video there it looks like you have something else to address first- maybe your bar aint junk, someone just put the wrong chain on your saw. Any idea what gauge / pitch the chain is? the bar should have it stamped on the side.
I'll post some pics of semi-chisel sharpened correctly.
Example - this tooth needs to come back to the red line. Depth gauges and safety links will also have to be taken down.
Example - this tooth needs to come back to the red line. Depth gauges and safety links will also have to be taken down.
FYI, you are probably better off with semi-chisel chain as it retains sharpness in dirty wood longer than full chisel and will reduce kick-back. Also easier to sharpen IMO. btw, what happened to the link behind the cutter?
Lot of good information from the other posters. Bars and chains (and sprockets) are wear / consumable items; you want to get as much life as you can out of them, but at some point, have to decide if it is worth it.
One common 'trick' is to simply run a chain with a thicker gauge in a worn bar groove. E.g., buy a 0.058" gauge chain to run in a worn 0.050" guide bar. But that won't work for you, as yours probably started out at 0.063".
Some people will try to narrow the groove by carefully tapping them together, as @rupedoggy suggested. You can also buy a roller tool to do this, but understand that it will not make an 'old' bar 'new'.
https://www.baileysonline.com/woodlandpro-chainsaw-guide-bar-rail-closer-w-10001.htmlhttps://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/bar-rail-closing.64620/
In my experience, pulling to the side is mostly from uneven R and L cutters, and / or uneven depth gauge ('raker') heights. I believe that you tried a new chain, but I would measure the old chain carefully too.
I agree with @buzz sawyer on the corner of (at least) this cutter. Are they all like this one?
+1 on the uniform blue marks around the perimeter of the bar from induction hardening - this can be found under the paint on new bars, if you want to verify it. It is still a good quality bar, even if it is of the less expensive, laminated construction.
Philbert
A close look - there is a guide mark for the gullet near the back of each tooth. That is the profile you want for the gullet. There is also an angle mark on the top of each tooth. That is the angle for the top of the cutter.
In Buzz Sawyer's post #24 he drew a red arrow pointing to where the cutter needs to be filed back. That edge you see at the tip of the arrow is the edge of the damaged chrome plating on the cutter. The cutter must be filed (or ground) back past that edge in order to create a cutting edge that is reinforced by that chrome plating. Without it the tooth will get dull almost immediately when you begin cutting...and if all the cutters are this way on one side of the chain then it will definitely pull to one side even after you file it.
My brother-in-law had a Stihl 024AVS that cut crooked, too. I sharpened the chain for him and before I put it back on the bar I noticed he had a .063 bar and his chain was .050. That much slop in the chain and groove can make a saw cut crooked. Make sure the bar and chain match (number of Drive lengths; Pitch .325 or 3/8 or 3/8 low profile, or 1/4; and Gauge thickness .043 or .050 or .058 or .063... there are a lot of variables to consider when matching bars and chains together.
Go ahead a re dress the bar just to be sure it's square and try a new chain. Depending on how and where you grip the handle bars, you can make it cut in any direction you want. You can steer it a little bit. Try changing your grip location and that may help.
Just yesterday I cut a round that had a lag screw in it and just so happens, I only skimmed just one side of the chain. It took a bit of filling , I got it back cutting, though I did loose a lot of life of the chain. If your rakers are not dragging the bottom of the bar grove, it should still have some life in it.
Just yesterday I cut a round that had a lag screw in it and just so happens, I only skimmed just one side of the chain. It took a bit of filling , I got it back cutting, though I did loose a lot of life of the chain. If your rakers are not dragging the bottom of the bar grove, it should still have some life in it.
You mean the drive links, right?
All - this is really terrific info, thanks so much for sharing. On the topic of sharpening, I have been pretty naively just trying to make that I file with the correct angle, and make sure the metal looks clean and shiny after sharpening. What I've obviously missed in all of this is that I'm not filing the teeth back to their proper profile or depth. I think Buzz Sawyer's and rd35's posts finally landed the concept for me (although I've learned from every response on this thread).
One thing I still don't get - as I understand it, you're supposed to file all of your teeth back to the same depth. Why is this? IOW, if I have a tooth that has, let's say, 10mm showing on the top plate of the tooth, and another that's showing 5mm, why is it important to file/grind all the teeth back to the lowest common denominator (5mm in this case)? Won't each tooth cut independently regardless of what the other teeth on the chain look like?
One thing I still don't get - as I understand it, you're supposed to file all of your teeth back to the same depth. Why is this? IOW, if I have a tooth that has, let's say, 10mm showing on the top plate of the tooth, and another that's showing 5mm, why is it important to file/grind all the teeth back to the lowest common denominator (5mm in this case)? Won't each tooth cut independently regardless of what the other teeth on the chain look like?
The top of each cutter is inclined, so the length of each cutter is related to the height of each cutter. Getting all of the teeth on a saw at the same height (or following a defined curve) is called 'jointing'. This applies to any kind of saw (hand saw, circular saw, crosscut saw, etc.). Filing or grinding your chainsaw cutters to the same length is jointing the chain, at the same time you sharpen the cutting edges.
Similarly, one side of each cutter sticks out to the side, so that the kerf is wider than the thickness of the bar (or blade on other types of saws) so that the saw does not bind. So the length of each cutter is also related to the kerf created. Getting all of the teeth on each side to stick out the same amount is called 'setting' the teeth. Again, this applies to any kind of saw.
So part of the 'genius' of this tooth design, compared to earlier 'scratcher tooth' chainsaws, is that in one pass of the file, you can:
- sharpen the top plate cutting edge;
- sharpen the side plate cutting edge;
- joint the chain;
- set the chain.
These used to be separate tasks, which made sharpening more difficult.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/scratcher-chain.271236/
There are people who will state that the length of each cutter does not matter, as long as it is sharp, and that each depth gauge ('raker') is individually set / adjusted for that specific tooth. But you will not get as smooth of a cut, and it is simpler (IMO) to make them uniform. Don't make yourself nuts trying to get everything within a millimeter of each other, but strive for uniform cutters and you develop your sharpening skill.
Philbert
That is an awesome explanation, Philbert - I hope others with my same question see your post.
After all this education, it's apparent to me that my chains are poorly sharpened. In looking at one of my chains, the picture below is my new assessment of what needs to be done to sharpen them. There's alot to file/grind off, so I will probably start with my electric sharpener and then finish up with a file.
After all this education, it's apparent to me that my chains are poorly sharpened. In looking at one of my chains, the picture below is my new assessment of what needs to be done to sharpen them. There's alot to file/grind off, so I will probably start with my electric sharpener and then finish up with a file.
Looks good! Remember to file the depth gauges and safety teeth to match the new tooth height. You will need a gauge to do this.
A few things here:
If you have damaged corners, like those shown, you need to file/grind back past those. Otherwise, the beveled corners might push the cutters away from the wood, instead of leading them into it. This is more of an issue with the pointed corners of full-chisel chain, than with the rounded corners on semi-chisel chain.
I 'clean up' a lot of chains for volunteer disaster response groups, who are very hard on them. If I have just 1 or 2 damaged cutters, I will usually grind just those back, and let the rest of the loop 'catch up' with them over time. No need to waste a lot of cutter life. When it gets to be several cutters, I have to make choices. Keeping cutters the same length should be an aspiration, not an obsession.
Grinding away large amounts of cutters (when needed), and finishing up with a file, is a popular approach for many guys who like a final, filed edge. I am usually happy with the final edge left by my grinders.
It's not binary: 'good' or 'bad' - it is a process where you develop more knowledge, skill, and experience the more you do it. Try different things, and see how your chains cut!
Philbert
We use whatever is available at the small hardware store nearby, as our saw shop or larger hardware stores are a drive. Right now it looks like a pretty generic container of bar oil.
Thanks, and yes, I have a depth gauge so I should be good there.
Sounds good, and thanks again for the guidance on this.
