Screw piles as anchors for guys/tails?

[catbuster]

They're a really good idea. They tend to be more solid than a stump, rock or backspar/anchor machine. The problem is augering them into the ground. It takes a big machine to twist one big enough to hold enough weight into the ground. And most loggers don't have a big enough machine to do it.

A 100,000 lb hoe (400/450 Hitachi/Deere, 345/349 Cat, 460/480 Volvo) with a large enough auger might work.

 

[northmanlogging]

Dunno, I can get pretty much anywhere the feller buncher goes. A good feller buncher operator will put the logs in the best spot to grab too.

Also we pretty much all wear steel spikes in our shoes, and on yarder ground sometimes they aren't enough...

 

[slowp]

I think the sound of a talkie tooter is very cheery.

 

[2dogs]

Also we pretty much all wear steel spikes in our shoes, and on yarder ground sometimes they aren't enough...

Stop it! I laughed so loudly my dog and two cats ran in to see if I was OK.

 

[AKDoug]

I'd be interested to see a job that is steeper than something a feller buncher can do. The one we run (Timberjack) is stable on slopes I can barely stand on.

I guess if it was real rough/rocky?

I'm not arguing either, just interested in the why.

You need to get out more. Go to south east Alaska and you will see why .

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

You need to get out more. Go to south east Alaska and you will see why .

That's nice. I'm glad you know everything and been everywhere.

 

[Gologit]

 

[KiwiBro]

They're a really good idea. They tend to be more solid than a stump, rock or backspar/anchor machine. The problem is augering them into the ground. It takes a big machine to twist one big enough to hold enough weight into the ground. And most loggers don't have a big enough machine to do it.

A 100,000 lb hoe (400/450 Hitachi/Deere, 345/349 Cat, 460/480 Volvo) with a large enough auger might work.

If I ever find the $ for a wee, tractor 3PH mounted tower, I was hoping two people with a post hole borer would drive the anchors in and out if needed. Only reason I got to thinking about these things was a scenario where I had no suitable holds for the guylines for a spar tree and that was the only tree anywhere near a suitable (but nowhere near optimal) landing site a while back.

Oh, and for the record, I didn't interpret Valley's posts in the same light the more experienced members here did. I just thought he was musing out loud, not having a dig, etc.

 

[BeatCJ]

I doubt that a handheld auger would set them, I think you need considerable reinforce if you have any kind of soil cohesion at all.

 

[KiwiBro]

Apparently, guys are doing this on 50 degree slopes if the ground type allows it. They are trying to get the operator out of the cab and in a nice, cosy chalet with a hot chocolate drink in winter and a cool fan and ice tea in Summer, staring at screens, running the machine remotely.

 

[KiwiBro]

I doubt that a handheld auger would set them, I think you need considerable reinforce if you have any kind of soil cohesion at all.

Sounds like it needs some pretty big forces to get the anchor in there. I will have to keep reading up, with a view to seeing if a wee (7t) digger with boring head will be enough. Otherwise, I think it's going to be a no-go for microscopic operators.

 

[slowp]

I seem to remember them using a hand held, engine run auger for the demonstration. It was only a demonstration. No yarder was on the site.

 

[catbuster]

I seem to remember them using a hand held, engine run auger for the demonstration. It was only a demonstration. No yarder was on the site.

That's the problem-it was just an idea demo, and it's not even close to the required sizes to really do the job. A singular one of these to hold a yarder, or even three guyline holders, would have to be massive. I ran the numbers, and to withhold the forces you would need three driven roughly 7' in the ground weighing ~3500lbs a piece in solid soil. And by solid soil I don't mean fractured stone. In fractured stone like I see in the PMW's rotten basalt fields, you're looking at more size and depth required.

I mean, a standard backspar machine in a 100k lb excavator or D8 Cat that weighs 80 thou. Times the force of gravity you get a force of 355,000 newtons for the Cat and close to a half mil for the backspar hoe. You're essentially replacing that force. And it's a **** ton of force.

 

[slowp]

Apparently, guys are doing this on 50 degree slopes if the ground type allows it. They are trying to get the operator out of the cab and in a nice, cosy chalet with a hot chocolate drink in winter and a cool fan and ice tea in Summer, staring at screens, running the machine remotely.

A very good operator 'splained to me how the self leveling cab can give a false sense of security. He had tipped hi processor over in the past because of that. He had it on some pretty steep ground here, and had to give up. He was slipping on the rocks and as I've said earlier, couldn't reach out as far as the machine was made to do. It was a unit that was steep, and should have been helicopter ground. The flatter part of the unit was on the map as helicopter ground. We had to do a modification, changing things around, and then changed the helicopter to skyline. At that time, the recession had just hit and the helicopter companies were few.

 

[Whitespider]

What about boat anchors??
They dig in pretty good.

I'VE MOVED HERE