Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

[Jeffkrib]

Question: what's the theory on how square ground cuts faster. I understand the sharp cutting point of chisel versus the rounded corner on semi, but what is it about the sharp corner in the base of the '7' that makes it cut faster. The cutting edge is the same on square and round ground full chisel. I assume its like a chip breaker on a lathe tool.

 

[JustJeff]

Since my this years wood is put away, this is next years. My process is to stack it on the back fence for a year and move it next year. It gets full sun (when the corn is gone) and west wind almost constant here. Usually I have to pick some up in the spring, so I am going to try stacking double deep and see how that works out. Corn is crazy high, over 8'! I'm estimating 1.3 full cord here so far. It's a good feeling being so far ahead.

 

[chipper1]

That tree certainly takes its self preservation seriously! Those are some impressive thorns.

Since he doesn't know what's involved it sounds like your mate assumed it would be easy to remove that tree. And actually, it would be easy. I'd drop it for 20 bucks as long as it doesn't matter where it lands .

That's basically what I told him, my saws will come out for about 100 a tree min when there's only a few, but if I have to shoot lines, climb or get on your roof, well .
Talked to him today and we will probably be trimming it back off the house for him. I probably won't charge much, just whatever he wants to pay me for a good days work, the good thing for me is it doesn't take me all day to do 8hrs of work .

 

[svk]

Question: what's the theory on how square ground cuts faster. I understand the sharp cutting point of chisel versus the rounded corner on semi, but what is it about the sharp corner in the base of the '7' that makes it cut faster. The cutting edge is the same on square and round ground full chisel. I assume its like a chip breaker on a lathe tool.

I'll try to explain....There is inefficiency in the corner of the cutter and the squared corner of square chain reduces this.

 

[muddstopper]

I'm going to look for one of them double beveled flat files and give it a try. Done and watched youtube so I guess I know all I need to know. Here hold my beer and watch this.

 

[svk]

I've only hand sharpened square chain that was previously ground by machine. Converting round to square on your first try might be tough.

 

[cantoo]

I have no idea how much I burn because I burn a lot of crap along the way, skids and cut offs from work, cardboard etc. This year we intend to only burn the ash so should be able to keep track of it better. I cut logs at 13'4" so they work out at 32" for my OWB. I cut 200 of these logs this year, dia was 10 to 22". I also cut a lot into 16" to sell, maybe did 10 cords last year but have 3 or 4 left over. Not likely going to cut much 16" stuff this year though. Next year we will be buying some decent sized slabs so the count will be much higher.
Still haven't cut a thing with it but I do have it altogether and on a trailer. Haven't put the extension on it yet though. I wish I could buy some time.

 

[JustJeff]

I have no idea how much I burn because I burn a lot of crap along the way, skids and cut offs from work, cardboard etc. This year we intend to only burn the ash so should be able to keep track of it better. I cut logs at 13'4" so they work out at 32" for my OWB. I cut 200 of these logs this year, dia was 10 to 22". I also cut a lot into 16" to sell, maybe did 10 cords last year but have 3 or 4 left over. Not likely going to cut much 16" stuff this year though. Next year we will be buying some decent sized slabs so the count will be much higher.
Still haven't cut a thing with it but I do have it altogether and on a trailer. Haven't put the extension on it yet though. I wish I could buy some time.
View attachment 599769 View attachment 599770

We built a log lifter for a portable sawmill trailer. Customer works for hydro one forestry. Wonder where he finds his wood? Lol. It works pretty slick. Tines shaped like an S with a small tooth on the bottom end so you can roll a log on and it stays. Hydraulic cylinder lifts the tines and the log rolls right onto the mill bed. Hope you get some time to play with your new toy.

 

[Cowboy254]

The retired fella that I gave firewood to passed away last month , he was cutting up the last loads I brought him right up to the week before he passed .
Rest in peace Billy .
I'll miss dropping off wood and having him complain that I blocked some of it up .

 

[Cowboy254]

I'm going to call you out on this one Cowboy..... I don't think you really want to reduce the amount of wood you burn

Well I did say that I hoped to reduce the amount I burn, not the amount I cut .

 

[cantoo]

Justjeff, I'm planning to build a new trailer just for the mill but haven't decided on size or design yet. I have 3 or 4 hydraulic 12 volt pumps laying around so it will have a log lift and some type of hydraulic assist to turn logs. Also going to use some of my roller conveyors too. Auction sale in Harriston tomorrow morning for a wood working shop so no time to play with the mill.

 

[MustangMike]

Question: what's the theory on how square ground cuts faster. I understand the sharp cutting point of chisel versus the rounded corner on semi, but what is it about the sharp corner in the base of the '7' that makes it cut faster. The cutting edge is the same on square and round ground full chisel. I assume its like a chip breaker on a lathe tool.

As SVK stated, the corner is the most important thing, but second most important is the vertical cutter. Think of it, the chain cuts the wood grain (think of them as being like strings in a rope), the corner & vertical cutters do most of the work, the top cutter is just like a chisel getting rid of the chip.

Square file matches the angle of your cutting tooth, making like a knife blade. Using a round file to sharpen a square cutter is easier, but the resulting cutter is not as efficient. The angle of the vertical cutter varies the entire length of the tooth.

Full chisel is 10-15% faster than semi chisel, and square is 10-15% faster than round. So, going from semi to sq file is >20% gain!

Also, when you square file, you go from the outside in, just like knife sharpening. Just makes more sense.

 

[Jeffkrib]

So the square ground should have no hook?
Both round and square chisel have identical cutting chisel's. So it's how it rakes out the chips which would be different.

 

[rarefish383]

it varies, the dead standing locust i got this year was well rotten in the middle.

It's amazing how fast this thread moves along. Miss a day and you get pages behind. Black Locust are prone to a root rot. If you see the big hard mushroom shaped growths on the outside of the tree, there will be rot inside. This is often what brings them down. The root system gets compromised to the point it can't support the weight of the tree, or they snap off through the hollow. Root rots can be fungal or bacterial. Once the wood is split and starts to dry, it can still be stacked on the ground and the rot will not continue. Maybe the pathogens go dormant when they dry out. Maybe jefflovstrom will see this and jump in, he's pretty knowledgeable on pathogens of trees. Anyway, green Black Locust fence posts will last many, many years in the ground and not rot off, Joe.

 

[farmer steve]

It's amazing how fast this thread moves along. Miss a day and you get pages behind. Black Locust are prone to a root rot. If you see the big hard mushroom shaped growths on the outside of the tree, there will be rot inside. This is often what brings them down. The root system gets compromised to the point it can't support the weight of the tree, or they snap off through the hollow. Root rots can be fungal or bacterial. Once the wood is split and starts to dry, it can still be stacked on the ground and the rot will not continue. Maybe the pathogens go dormant when they dry out. Maybe jefflovstrom will see this and jump in, he's pretty knowledgeable on pathogens of trees. Anyway, green Black Locust fence posts will last many, many years in the ground and not rot off, Joe.

my dad put a new sheep fence up in 1963. there are still some original locust posts in the ground. the fence was torn down years ago. Joe you think this thread goes fast.which it does. you should try keeping up in the good morning check in thread. i get 3-4 pages behind from morning till evening.

 

[chipper1]

my dad put a new sheep fence up in 1963. there are still some original locust posts in the ground. the fence was torn down years ago. Joe you think this thread goes fast.which it does. you should try keeping up in the good morning check in thread. i get 3-4 pages behind from morning till evening.

Sorry Steve .
This is black locust I un-burried when grading out front. I started cutting it with the intent of throwing it on the fire pit, then once I started and saw just how solid it was inside I cut it all to length, just couldn't throw that on the bonfire even though the largest piece is only about 6", it's not like spruce.
The numbers on the square will fall apart quickly on this wood, very dirty and very hard(as in sparks flying on clean dry black locust ), anything you save will be lost in sharpening. Also I have not met a faller who works in hardwood yet who runs square for production in hardwood( I've asked), but they do in softwood as well as racing. I cut this locust with a semi chisel and still haven't put a file to it after cutting a bit of white and red oak with the same chain, even if it was full chisel I would have had to freshen it up. Semi has it's place as does square, this was a great place for semi.
Notice the dirt on the lower piece of wood, it's at least 5/8" thick, 16mm for you folks across the ponds .
Here's the locust I've cut this year, I still have a few more buckets of larger rounds to pick up yet. The single row is about 20'x4' and the pile is about the same.

 

[svk]

So the square ground should have no hook?
Both round and square chisel have identical cutting chisel's. So it's how it rakes out the chips which would be different.

View attachment 599780

There is still a hook but not as deep as round ground.

 

[chipper1]

I pulled in my driveway and the trees just started falling in fear. I have pics on my fone. I'll post in a min.....

Pictures or it never happened .

I have also identified the chainsaw folks who live to stir drama

Did you call Steve .

There is still a hook but not as deep as round ground.

Do they consider it a hook, or just the forward lean of the tooth.

 

[chipper1]

Just sharpened two Stihl chains and one Carlton chain, the Carlton chain is way harder even with a brand new file it's not nice to file. I also discovered why my chain didn't cut the other day, I had hit a steel wedge on the previous outing and hadn't filled back enough.
I'm not sold on the clamp on file guide purely due to the hardness of Carlton chain. If I were using the other brands of chain I'd go with it but the other brands of chain cost double as much.

Try using plastic wedges for felling and bucking, and steel for splitting(unless you were trying to cut one out of a chunk that wouldn't split).

I would guess the cost of a grinder would take a while to pay off vs using chains you could file based on how much you cut.
The good thing is you already have those chains and someone who can grind them for you. I would keep looking for a low priced one now as your not in a hurry.

I hear you. I think my hand filing is ok but where was no comparison compared to when I put a new chain on. This was when I realised that my filing was ok, but not awesome.

I think the margin of error in wood that hard is going to be a lot less than most woods we cut stateside.

 

[chipper1]

Good scrounge today at a friend's timber. About 1/2 cord of oak, a liittle hickory and about 1/2 cord of mixed evergreen. All of it dead & dry. The oak was lightening killed 2years ago and will sit in the stack for probably another year... Should be good to go. Got a few pictures too.

Looks like a nice scrounge cornfused.
Any pictures of the truck in your avatar .