Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

[SteveSS]

Persimmon trees as well...they'll just about stand on each other's backs to get to 'em.

I don't get a lot of persimmons here. The few trees that I have are real spindly and produce very little fruit. They probably need more sun than they get.

 

[farmer steve]

No rule that I know of. There seems to be a lot of tops left for the amount of logs taken out on the neighbor's property. He had a local Amishman log with horses, mainly going after ash trees before the EAB can get them, and I swear there are 'tops' there that have another log left in them if you took the time. I believe the local mill is currently not taking anything smaller than 14" diameter at the small end.

You must be cutting bigger trees. Red maples and oak around here rarely go past 16" DBH so tops are a whole lot smaller. The piles we were working were from when logs were delimbed in the woods and tree length logs skidded to the landing. When we were scrounging was basically the cut offs at the top of the tree that were less than 8' long

what KOG is talking about svk. we used to get tops that you had to cut from both side with a 20" bar. aaah to good ole days. most of the tops i'm cutting now i can get away with a 16" bar and a non-ported saw.

 

[chipper1]

I have to be on travel next week for work in Illinois. As usual, I was perusing CL in advance to scout any saws that may be worth looking into. There was? a rear handle 200 up where I'm going to be that I was? going to have a look at. Where'd ya' happen to find that one?

Hey Steve.
It was in ft wayne.
There are 2 in detroit for 495 and one the guy wants way more for that is in real nice shape.
Not sure of any others.
I've been looking for something for my son to start on and don't like the weight distribution on my little MS192t for him.
I think I will probably sell the 192 and find an echo or a dolmar that's in the lower 9lbs range, as I will probably keep the 200 for a backpack, trunk, quad, whatever the heck I need it for saw.
Where are you heading in Il. I watch a lot of the midwest if there is something in particular you want/need let me know.

 

[chipper1]

Just went by there on Sunday morning.

Nice purse BTW.

I figured, I was probably picking that log up and putting it in the wagon about the time you were traveling through chicago land.
Hope the trip went well, looked like the saw is working great.

Thanks, I figured you'd notice, you being a connoisseur of fine goods and a scrounger.

 

[chipper1]

we always figured about a 1/2 cord per top. with pulp wood prices higher the loggers are scrounging all they can after they get the saw logs out. we started buying tops at $5-10 per top when they only took the saw logs and you could saw a lot of wood. just saw an ad from a guy that had his property logged. he want $60 an 8' p/u bed full. u cut.

1/2 cord is what we figure depending on the loggers on site. Some will take it right down to 12" if it can be milled, or for pulp which is what you get if you order a semi for firewood.

You must be cutting bigger trees. Red maples and oak around here rarely go past 16" DBH so tops are a whole lot smaller. The piles we were working were from when logs were delimbed in the woods and tree length logs skidded to the landing. When we were scrounging was basically the cut offs at the top of the tree that were less than 8' long

16" is a tree the loggers would drive right past here, thats a branch. They are easy to work though if they reach straight to the top of the canopy, I feel bad using that stuff for firewood.
I was in a thread where they were talking about skidding the whole tree to the landing, that is about the size he said they were.
You would need a big Cat dozer to skid most of the smaller ones through my buddies property. I watched the guy skidding at his property and he had to work a bit to get just logs out, I don't think it would have pulled a full top through unless all the branches were "nipped" so they folded in when pulled. They laugh at the skidder on my tractor, even after nipping the bigger branches, front tires hanging are a normal scene and that's with a loader on the tractor.

I got into some tops last spring. Some maple I had to cut from 2 sides with a 20" bar. Most were 16" and smaller. Tops are a pile of work unless you can get a tractor in.
I was just truck and trailer so if it was within hucking distance, I cut it. No more than two throws away. No way I'd pay 60 bucks for pickup load that I had to cut and load myself. I can get a load of logs dropped at the house for less than that. My deal was cut a cord for me, cut one for the landowner and leave his lay, he'd come get it. No hauling or stacking. I pulled 16 facecord out of there. Good hard maple. It was worth it.

I though you were one bad son of a gun, now I know it throwing those 25"+ chunks of maple.

The good thing is you have a fine balance between brawn and brains. I wouldn't pay that much for a truck load of wood either.
The thing is, someone who can't afford to pay there gas bill or doesn't want to fill their propane/fuel oil tank with the minimum is the type of person who would be happy to "get one over on the gas guy's" by paying 60 for a box full. They would also probably get there at dark and not even get it filled

what KOG is talking about svk. we used to get tops that you had to cut from both side with a 20" bar. aaah to good ole days. most of the tops i'm cutting now i can get away with a 16" bar and a non-ported saw.

We don't have to many that big here anymore either, but judging by what I have seen laying in the woods to rot from 20yrs ago I can tell that was the norm back then.
I will get some pictures Saturday if the weather allows.
Here's the only ones I have right now, this is the landing after I graded it and placed a few rocks across the top to keep the sroungers out

If you look behind the front center rock you can see a nice chunk they left. It will need two bucking cuts and is between 32-36". The picture is deceiving, the big rock there had the back of my tractor off the ground with a 1000lbs 5' brush hog on the back(yes it weighs 996lbs per landpride spec sheet).

Off to the left you can see a stump from one of the smaller trees that was taken.

The ash tree on the left is a nice solid dead standing

Before I got the skidder we used this I thought I could pull this one around a tree at the top of the hill, should have made straight pulls only, but oh well. There was still the other big split off this one and other various nice size branches left from this one.
If you look close you can see the stump the top above came from on the left side of the trail through the trees, it was at least 36".

 

[kingOFgEEEks]

I will definitely plant a a few, just not the whole lot in them.

I've been thinking about this some more. Acorns are a great mast producing crop, but there are others, that grow more quickly. Have you thought about planting a beech grove? We have no acorns on our farm, but the deer and turkeys love the beech nuts.

 

[svk]

@chipper1 the oaks and maples really don't get any bigger than that up here. I cut a lot of maple that make it to 6-8" then are choked out of sunlight by aspen which grow much faster. You do find red maples in yards that will get significantly larger though when they have the sunlight to keep growing.

 

[beentown]

Seems strange to me but makes sense. Our maples are what chokes everything else out here. The last silver I cut was +40"

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[Fordhighboy1]

In the woods behind my house I have honeysuckle choking out all new starts then a layer of maple and above that a layer of elm oak ash walnut and hickory but as I cut the dead elm and ash trees the maples are pushing up through in short order to take over and with my 2nd and 3rd largest red oaks succumbing to oak wilt the dynamics of the woods are going to change real fast. Just wish the honeysuckle would all die off!

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[SteveSS]

Just wish the honeysuckle would all die off!

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I spent quite a few hours last summer pulling as many of the vines as I could by hand. I've got it down to ground level now. Once it starts it's regrowth this spring, I'll give it a spray and hopefully finish it off for good.

 

[svk]

In the woods behind my house I have honeysuckle choking out all new starts then a layer of maple and above that a layer of elm oak ash walnut and hickory but as I cut the dead elm and ash trees the maples are pushing up through in short order to take over and with my 2nd and 3rd largest red oaks succumbing to oak wilt the dynamics of the woods are going to change real fast. Just wish the honeysuckle would all die off!

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It is interesting watching the woods change as it matures or after logging.

They did a big cut about 25 years ago near us. Of course the aspen dominated the first 20 years but as the shorter saplings died off it has filled nicely with birch and evergreen. The birch is now at the point where it would be nice size to just fell and buck with no splitting needed. In a few years it will be perfect "one split" size.

 

[Fordhighboy1]

Sadly I drive past mile after mile of forest around here that is in desperate need of some work but no one want u on their land even if u r were a Forester and it was all volunteer work.

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[svk]

Sadly I drive past mile after mile of forest around here that is in desperate need of some work but no one want u on their land even if u r were a Forester and it was all volunteer work.

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It is interesting that people have no interest in quality management.

Our tree farm has had several cuts over the last 100 or so years it has been in the family. It is due for another thinning but there is only one logger in the area who does small tracts and he is pretty booked out. The 1988 norway pine is ready to be thinned and the logs are big enough to be sold as pulp already.

 

[Fordhighboy1]

I think a lot of it is people have no clue what it all looked like before humans darn near clear cut the continent and they see some woos and think that by just leaving it alone and never cutting anything in the overgrown mess it is conserving and preserving the natural forest

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[svk]

I think a lot of it is people have no clue what it all looked like before humans darn near clear cut the continent and they see some woos and think that by just leaving it alone and never cutting anything in the overgrown mess it is conserving and preserving the natural forest

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Yes.

Tangled regrowth is nothing like the old forests.

 

[chipper1]

@chipper1 the oaks and maples really don't get any bigger than that up here. I cut a lot of maple that make it to 6-8" then are choked out of sunlight by aspen which grow much faster. You do find red maples in yards that will get significantly larger though when they have the sunlight to keep growing.

Wow, that's a small tree here. If you mean the one I was skidding, or attempting to skid lol.
If you just look at the trees left on his land you can see many that big in the pictures.

It sure is interesting to hear and see the differences in the sizes and types of trees in so many parts of this country and others.
I love learning and there is no shortage of that here.

It is interesting watching the woods change as it matures or after logging.

They did a big cut about 25 years ago near us. Of course the aspen dominated the first 20 years but as the shorter saplings died off it has filled nicely with birch and evergreen. The birch is now at the point where it would be nice size to just fell and buck with no splitting needed. In a few years it will be perfect "one split" size.

Would you really cut a tree down for firewood that would not even need to be split. I can see if it was dying, dead standing, or to let others grow up/management.

 

[svk]

Wow, that's a small tree here. If you mean the one I was skidding, or attempting to skid lol.
If you just look at the trees left on his land you can see many that big in the pictures.

It sure is interesting to hear and see the differences in the sizes and types of trees in so many parts of this country and others.
I love learning and there is no shortage of that here.

Would you really cut a tree down for firewood that would not even need to be split. I can see if it was dying, dead standing, or to let others grow up/management.

Yeah we get big pines up here but the soil isn't right for growing hardwoods.

On the second part of the post. No, I wouldn't cut those trees unless they were dead/dying or blowdown.

 

[chipper1]

Yeah we get big pines up here but the soil isn't right for growing hardwoods.

On the second part of the post. No, I wouldn't cut those trees unless they were dead/dying or blowdown.

Kinda funny, you look at the trees out west and other parts of the world and the ones we have here are little baby trees, more like saplings.

What do you guys burn mainly for firewood then.

 

[svk]

What do you guys burn mainly for firewood then.

Well white birch, red maple, and black ash are the traditional heating woods as well as a smaller amount of oak. More aspen than you could ever burn as well as plenty of pine.

 

[Fordhighboy1]

Everybody wants all oak but i sell a mix of oak ash maple hard and silver hickory hackberry elm black locust and occasionally walnut because no one will pay the price for pure oak loads unless it is to the guy wiht the s10 who is delivering a seasoned with the leaves on cord cut split and delivered on demand did i mention it is a seasoned cord