Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

[Kodiak Kid]

Pine is approximately 1 R per inch, not even close to what most insulation is. If you have nothing else, it's better than nothing, but I'd say it's far from quite well.
Just looked it up, about 1R per inch.
https://safewarmdry.com/my-column-on-castanet/all-about-wood-chip-insulation/#:~:text=If you compare the R,little or no thermal benefits.
View attachment 1231863
The short walls on the lean-to area of my barn are only 4" with a 2x4 girt on them, I have 1.5" of foil faced isopoly, that's approximately R-9 based on 6 R per inch. Then I have another half inch standing upright, then a 2x4 wall with r-11. Overall that's 23 R for 7", that's on my thinnest wall. In that 12x24 I had no problem heating it with a 1500 watt electric heater, when the main is heated I should be able to easily heat it with 750-1000 watt, if I use electric.
I would have liked to have at least 3/8 on the whole exterior as a thermal break, and at least an inch under the concrete 4' from the perimeter, and an inch on the outside edge of the concrete inside the forms/skirt board. Unfortunately we/you can't always get what you want , but I try sometimes lol.

I definitely agree that it's not as good as modern insulation, as modern insulation is designed and engineered specifically to insulate. However I disagree on the R value of sawdust only being 1 R per inch. I've been in a few cabins insulated with saw dust up north on main land Alaska and it worked quite well in the middle of winter in sub freezing temps in the single digits. I would not use it myself if I lived within driving distance of a building supply store, but if I was building remote or building off grid and on a budget. I wouldn't hesitate or think twice about using it.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I will put insulation under and on the sides of the slab . Required here anyway as is a vapor barrier. They frown on any type of drains where autos or power equipment are stored .

The way Prodex works is it pretty much seals the inside like an envelope the warm air never gets to the metal to condensate. Also helps control radiant heat gain in summer . And the air circulates much like rafters in the house . You need the airspace for air to circulate against the roof .

I insulated the edges and underneath the slab my shop is built on before I poured the concrete. I used 2" closed cell foam board. Made a huge difference in how long the shop holds heat after a fire in the stove goes out. Seems to me once the concrete reaches room temperature, let's say 75°. I can step in there a day or two after the fire has died and it stihl be 55°- 60° in the winter providing I haven't opened the big shop door for any decent amount of time lettingcold air in. That's with 6" walls and R 24 fiberglass linsulation in them and a vapor barrier with 1/2" drywall.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[sundance]

I insulated the edges and underneath the slab my shop is built on before I poured the concrete. I used 2" closed cell foam board. Made a huge difference in how long the shop holds heat after a fire in the stove goes out. Seems to me once the concrete reaches room temperature, let's say 75°. I can step in there a day or two after the fire has died and it stihl be 55°- 60° in the winter providing I haven't opened the big shop door for any decent amount of time lettingcold air in. That's with 6" walls and R 24 fiberglass linsulation in them and a vapor barrier with 1/2" drywall.
Just my 2 cents.

So, with that knowledge why would the she shed have kerf waste insulation?

 

[Kodiak Kid]

So, with that knowledge why would the she shed have kerf waste insulation?

Just a thought for one and I'm on a budget for two, but to be honest. I'll probably just buy fiberglass or whatever they make it out of these days. Price depending. We'll see.

 

[benz66]

On the subject of roll up doors, I would go with garage door style. I recently had one of the internal springs break and all of the folks around here that repair roll up doors said it was cheaper to replace rather than repair. I had no intention of buying another $1100 door for a broken spring, so I pulled it down and did the surgery and found and installed a new spring. I can see why it would cost so much if you had to pay someone to do it. Just my experience, but I would never go roll up again unless I had to. Fortunately for me it was only an 8x8.

All the garage doors I have seen for sale or recently installed in the past couple years have torsion springs, the same as the rollups. They just wind two cables around two spool on the axle in place of the old way with a tension spring, and pulleys to pull up the door. Same system as a sectional door on a semi trailer.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Then I'd think you would loose some of the r-value.
Up north of us they used it to insulate ice like Mike was saying.

I don't know. Hard saying. Could be, but when it comes to kerf waste or "sawdust" I think it would probably depend on how fine or course the waste is and how tight it was packed. There may be a formula to it.

Just for the record I hate to use the word "sawdust" because my saws don't produce "dust" my belt sander dose though and it would take a lot of sanding to produce enough sawdust to insulate even a small building. Now kerf waste on the other hand. At least the waste my saws produce is another story!

 

[benz66]

No company that sells ammo will ship anything to Taxachusetts. Here they require outside vendors to have an ammunition permit to ship here. We are screwed for ordering ammo, powder, primers and most others items online. Many people just go out of State to buy supplies. Also having friends in nearby States helps too. Taxachusetts is now keeping records on all ammo purchases. Walmart stopped selling ammo here a few months ago. This State has gone to shat big time with our illustrious Governor. Her new gun restrictions were put in without any hearings. C U, Next Tuesday is what gunowners call her.

Sounds like the perfect setup for smuggling. Same circumstances, but larger clientele put Al Capone in business. In the 50s and 60s, WI banned margerine, so people smuggled it in. It is much better to allow free markets to work on the right side of the law, perhaps with a few carrots and sticks. Outright bans foster illegal activity, and I'd guess your gooberner is right in the middle with hands out collecting from the smugglers, or her party is.

 

[Lee192233]

Had a date night with my wife. We went to the range for some trigger time and then had wings.It was a good night.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Had a date night with my wife. We went to the range for some trigger time and then had wings.View attachment 1232016It was a good night.

Range time and chicken wings? Sounds like a perfect evening to me!

The Mrs. and I put in a little time at the range yesterday evening ourselves. No wings though, so ya got us beat.

 

[benz66]

We just had an illegal living in the Quality Inn in Revere MA. arrested for having an AR-15 and $750,000 worth of drugs. He was living here courtesy of our Governor using taxpayer dollars to house and feed the SOB. Thirteen more days before the exports begin.

Quality inn is pretty low end for the new amigos. It is usually "Nothing but the finest" 4 star hotels for them. Can't wait until they are so scared they export themselves as happened a few years ago.

 

[Lee192233]

Range time and chicken wings? Sounds like a perfect evening to me!

The Mrs. and I put in a little time at the range yesterday evening ourselves. No wings though, so ya got us beat.

It was a perfect night by my standards. The cool thing was it was her idea!

This was my wife's first time shooting at an indoor range and she loved it. She was even talking about getting a family membership!

She really liked shooting my Dad's .22 Ruger pistol. I'm feeling a new gun in my future...

 

[MustangMike]

She really liked shooting my Dad's .22 Ruger pistol. I'm feeling a new gun in my future...

Which one? I have an older Mark II but my daughter has a newer model, a lightweight with the 45-style handle ... and she loves it!

My old Mark II NEVER jams ... wish I could say the same for my 10/22!

 

[chipper1]

I will put insulation under and on the sides of the slab . Required here anyway as is a vapor barrier. They frown on any type of drains where autos or power equipment are stored .

The way Prodex works is it pretty much seals the inside like an envelope the warm air never gets to the metal to condensate. Also helps control radiant heat gain in summer . And the air circulates much like rafters in the house . You need the airspace for air to circulate against the roof .

Here they don't require any type of barrier unless it's a living space, and most don't use anything. To me, if you plan on heating it, it makes no sense not to have one.
They do here too, but I just installed one in the 12x24 area my wife will park in. I plan on using that bay as a wash bay, still trying to decide on what materials I'll use to finish the inside.

I had to look up prodex. I've never used it or even heard of it, and I've installed a good bit of insulation, both res and commercial.
I understand how roof venting works better than most(sounds like you do too), ice dams were one of the big issues I was called for when I had a roofing business, usually caused by lack of insulation on the ceiling and poor ventilation(eves, ridge, and insulation touching the roof decking). Regardless of any radiant reflective properties, if there is an air gap, there will be humidity, That means even with an air gap of 1", that you will still have condensation on the metal, and that moisture will need someplace to go. There are metal roofing products that have a barrier attached to the bottom of them that help drain that condensation out of the building. I considered using them, but used 1/2 osb on 24" spaced trusses and then a special underlayment for metal to wood contact. I also have 2' overhangs with all vented soffit and used 1" polyiso to build chutes that have a 1" air space above the walls. more r-factor and better airflow than anything I've seen on the market. I really can't stand all the noise metal makes, then you get even more for rain on it. I had really wanted to use shingles, it breaks up the size of the roof, making it look smaller. Being that my building is in front of the house, I wanted it to look nice, plus I don't like the look of metal pole barn steel, I'm fine with the raised rib style used on homes.
What do you think you'll use now that you can't use the prodex, it looks to be a neat product, hard to believe R-20 from 10mm(I did read it's quite compressed. Maybe trump can make asbestos great again LOL.

 

[chipper1]

My son said that same thing when I tried showing him how to fix or build things. When he bought his first condo he found out the cost to hire contractors in Boston. He started calling his younger sister to ask her how to fix things. She was already doing repairs over at the farm we own doing her own plumbing, wiring, painting, fixing old windows and whatever else needed to be done.

Funny how life has a way of teaching kids that their parents weren't as dumb as the kids though .

Necessity is the Mother of Invention! When the price of fuel oil tripled overnight (Jimmy Carter was President) I installed an airtight woodstove made from a 55-gallon drum and learned how to use a chainsaw (my first father-in-law was a tree guy). Wood was transported home in the back of my Pinto station wagon! I split everything by hand ... did not get a hydraulic splitter till I was in my 60s.

When I needed a larger house, but could not afford one, I purchased a building lot (w/o BOH approval), got the approval, rented an excavator to do the footings, did the foundation, bought a modular ranch and got my "Homeowner Electrical License" (they are NLA) to wire downstairs and connect to the modular. I also did all the plumbing, which my brother (a PE) certified. I did the electric and plumbing after work using Coleman lanterns for light. I called this project my second education!

That's awesome Mike.
I tell my kids(and others), that they can achieve most anything they want, they just need to want it bad enough.

 

[SS396driver]

Here they don't require any type of barrier unless it's a living space, and most don't use anything. To me, if you plan on heating it, it makes no sense not to have one.
They do here too, but I just installed one in the 12x24 area my wife will park in. I plan on using that bay as a wash bay, still trying to decide on what materials I'll use to finish the inside.

I had to look up prodex. I've never used it or even heard of it, and I've installed a good bit of insulation, both res and commercial.
I understand how roof venting works better than most(sounds like you do too), ice dams were one of the big issues I was called for when I had a roofing business, usually caused by lack of insulation on the ceiling and poor ventilation(eves, ridge, and insulation touching the roof decking). Regardless of any radiant reflective properties, if there is an air gap, there will be humidity, That means even with an air gap of 1", that you will still have condensation on the metal, and that moisture will need someplace to go. There are metal roofing products that have a barrier attached to the bottom of them that help drain that condensation out of the building. I considered using them, but used 1/2 osb on 24" spaced trusses and then a special underlayment for metal to wood contact. I also have 2' overhangs with all vented soffit and used 1" polyiso to build chutes that have a 1" air space above the walls. more r-factor and better airflow than anything I've seen on the market. I really can't stand all the noise metal makes, then you get even more for rain on it. I had really wanted to use shingles, it breaks up the size of the roof, making it look smaller. Being that my building is in front of the house, I wanted it to look nice, plus I don't like the look of metal pole barn steel, I'm fine with the raised rib style used on homes.
What do you think you'll use now that you can't use the prodex, it looks to be a neat product, hard to believe R-20 from 10mm(I did read it's quite compressed. Maybe trump can make asbestos great again LOL.

View attachment 1232081

Most likely use 3 inch foam boards with the foil facing . The Prodex works well for displacing radiant heat from the sun in summer . I won’t have that much of a problem with that it’s shaded where I plan on putting the building .
Spray foam would be nice but it’s very expensive to get enough R value . It would have to be minimum of 3 inches

 

[SS396driver]

I insulated the edges and underneath the slab my shop is built on before I poured the concrete. I used 2" closed cell foam board. Made a huge difference in how long the shop holds heat after a fire in the stove goes out. Seems to me once the concrete reaches room temperature, let's say 75°. I can step in there a day or two after the fire has died and it stihl be 55°- 60° in the winter providing I haven't opened the big shop door for any decent amount of time lettingcold air in. That's with 6" walls and R 24 fiberglass linsulation in them and a vapor barrier with 1/2" drywall.
Just my 2 cents.

For any heated space it’s a must . I need to keep the area at a steady temp as I will be storing my Classic vehicles in it. Nothing like warming up a garage after a cold snap and everything that retains cold gets condensation. That why I never use a propane heater in to warm up a garage from 20degrees . I do when I want to kick up the temp from say 55-60 to 70 .

 

[chipper1]

Most likely use 3 inch foam boards with the foil facing . The Prodex works well for displacing radiant heat from the sun in summer . I won’t have that much of a problem with that it’s shaded where I plan on putting the building .
Spray foam would be nice but it’s very expensive to get enough R value . It would have to be minimum of 3 inches

Will you still have the 1" gap.

For any heated space it’s a must . I need to keep the area at a steady temp as I will be storing my Classic vehicles in it. Nothing like warming up a garage after a cold snap and everything that retains cold gets condensation. That why I never use a propane heater in to warm up a garage from 20degrees . I do when I want to kick up the temp from say 55-60 to 70 .

I've seen many "3 season" rooms that people put a non-vented propane heater, they just can't figure out why there's so much condensation lol.
The other day I had frost on everything metal in the shop, but the wheels tires on the tractors where the rim guard was. You could easily see exactly how full they were, and how low the one with a leak is, may fix that someday.

 

[JimR]

Sounds like the perfect setup for smuggling. Same circumstances, but larger clientele put Al Capone in business. In the 50s and 60s, WI banned margerine, so people smuggled it in. It is much better to allow free markets to work on the right side of the law, perhaps with a few carrots and sticks. Outright bans foster illegal activity, and I'd guess your gooberner is right in the middle with hands out collecting from the smugglers, or her party is.

This State wants to ban guns all together by what ever means necessary. Years ago they took gun licenses away from people that had been in a bar fight 40 years prior. You can no longer buy a new AR style rifle here or AK style. All handguns have to pass a drop test done by the crooks here. Manufacturers have to submit 3 pistols of every type and style that they want to sell here. The firearms do not get returned. Let's say that S&W wanted to sell a certain model revolver here that came in 5 different barrel lenghts. They would have to send the State 3 of each kind based just on the barrel length. Mind you that all the frames are identical. This is a complete F'en joke. Many companies just flatly refuse to send guns here. Hunters from out of State don't come here to hunt. If they did they need to register their firearm.

 

[SS396driver]

Will you still have the 1" gap.

I've seen many "3 season" rooms that people put a non-vented propane heater, they just can't figure out why there's so much condensation lol.
The other day I had frost on everything metal in the shop, but the wheels tires on the tractors where the rim guard was. You could easily see exactly how full they were, and how low the one with a leak is, may fix that someday.

If I go with vertical siding it will have a gap for the purlins unless I put 3/4 inch on first directly to the sheet metal . Not sure if it’s wise to have it directly on the metal . But if I do spray foam it too will be in direct contact with the metal siding and roof .
I’m not putting in a drop ceiling because with radiant heat the heat stays from floor level to about the 10 ft mark . When I went to my friends house he had me go up to cat walk storage area about 12 feet up it was cold up there and about 68 at the bottom of the stairs . His building I believe has 18 ft walls as he’s in the excavation business and needs to work on large equipment. He’s helping me do the slab

 

[SS396driver]

This State wants to ban guns all together by what ever means necessary. Years ago they took gun licenses away from people that had been in a bar fight 40 years prior. You can no longer buy a new AR style rifle here or AK style. All handguns have to pass a drop test done by the crooks here. Manufacturers have to submit 3 pistols of every type and style that they want to sell here. The firearms do not get returned. Let's say that S&W wanted to sell a certain model revolver here that came in 5 different barrel lenghts. They would have to send the State 3 of each kind based just on the barrel length. Mind you that all the frames are identical. This is a complete F'en joke. Many companies just flatly refuse to send guns here. Hunters from out of State don't come here to hunt. If they did they need to register their firearm.

I was under the impression Maine was a constitutional carry state ? You do live in Maine don’t you ?

Ohh sorry you’re in Massachusetts.