Shaver furnace install confused........

[Windwalker7]

Yes two pumps.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

Question for ghitch75

Please contact me if you have time. I have a question about underground line from the OWB to the house.

 

[Windwalker7]

What's the question? Hopefully someone could give the answer you are looking for.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

What's the question? Hopefully someone could give the answer you are looking for.

Thanks Windwalker7. I am just looking for someone who sells the insulated PEX (Logstor, Microflex, etc.) in southern Indiana. Maybe I could order it from a distributor but wanted to avoid the shipping cost. I thought I read in one of ghitch75's posts that he sells it but I haven't been able to get ahold of him with PM's. If anyone know's a source, please let me know. Sorry to break into this thread.

 

[tanker]

Thanks Windwalker7. I am just looking for someone who sells the insulated PEX (Logstor, Microflex, etc.) in southern Indiana. Maybe I could order it from a distributor but wanted to avoid the shipping cost. I thought I read in one of ghitch75's posts that he sells it but I haven't been able to get ahold of him with PM's. If anyone know's a source, please let me know. Sorry to break into this thread.

I bought mine from my central boiler dealer in Greenville Ohio.He has several rolls on hand plus all fittings and hardware and will sell by the foot so you don't have to buy what you don't need.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

I bought mine from my central boiler dealer in Greenville Ohio.He has several rolls on hand plus all fittings and hardware and will sell by the foot so you don't have to buy what you don't need.

Thanks Tanker. I guess I need to check around a little bit more. The dealer I'm buying the Clearflame OWB from sells a product but there doesn't appear to be much insulation around the PEX. Its kind of like some kind of extruded foam insulation in the shape of an elongated figure 8 with the PEX running through the two holes. Kind of like this ( o-o ). There's alot of open space left inside the corrugated pipe. I might end up making my own. I saw some instructions inside a Shaver instruction manual that was pretty detailed and sounded like it would work really well.

 

[Windwalker7]

I made mine like the Shaver instructions, except I didn't put the blue styrofoam between the pipes.

I put two 1" lines and two 3/4" lines (wrapped in Solar Guard) inside a 6" schedule 40 pipe.

It was a hassel!

I don't have any temp readings yet, until I get an infrared thermometer.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

I made mine like the Shaver instructions, except I didn't put the blue styrofoam between the pipes.

I put two 1" lines and two 3/4" lines (wrapped in Solar Guard) inside a 6" schedule 40 pipe.

It was a hassel!

I don't have any temp readings yet, until I get an infrared thermometer.

So did you wrap the Solar Guard around all four pipes or did you wrap the two supply lines together in one bundle and the two return lines in another bundle? Either way, what was the difficult part? Thanks.

 

[Windwalker7]

I wrapped all four pipes together. I realize that many recommend seperating hot and cold pipes.

I read somewhere on a forum about this. Guys were debating whether it really made a difference, since the return water is only a few degrees cooler.

I decided to just wrap it all together. Let me tell you, it was a hassle. The I had to cram all that in a 6" pipe for 100ft.

The insulation (Solar Guard) wrapped around about 5 times.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

I wrapped all four pipes together. I realize that many recommend seperating hot and cold pipes.

I read somewhere on a forum about this. Guys were debating whether it really made a difference, since the return water is only a few degrees cooler.

I decided to just wrap it all together. Let me tell you, it was a hassle. The I had to cram all that in a 6" pipe for 100ft.

The insulation (Solar Guard) wrapped around about 5 times.

Okay, now you got me thinking. I have a 75' straight run of two lines to make from the house to the OWB. Why couldn't I lay out the entire run of pex, wrap it with insulation then go around it with a role of shrink wrap to keep it together? Then I would slide the 6" sch. 40 over this one stick at a time making the glued connections as I go. I would probably put one of the silt screen socks (like you put over perforated corrugated pipe) around it so the PVC would slide on easier. I can see the shrink wrap clinging to the inside of the PVC pipe. I thought this would be easier than trying to pull the full length of pex / insulation through the full 75' of PVC. Any thoughts?

 

[urhstry]

Sounds like that would work better. You'll still need help doing that job.

 

[ngzcaz]

I only went twice w/ the solarguard but did first wrap it w/ the foam insulation first, then wrapped one pipe w/ solarguard all the way around then wrapped the second pipe w/ solarguard tying the two together. In essence the pipes are separated but yet tied together. Since my run is only 30 ft I probably could have gotten by w/ only the foam. IR readings indicate a three to 5 degree drop on the return line going to the OWB. Its on the same degree when coming in from the OWB until it hits the oil burner hot water coil..

My suggestion from what I've read. At least wrap one pipe w/ solarguard totally, then wrap the second pipe w/ the same winding as many wraps as you want.

:greenchainsaw:

 

[Windwalker7]

Let's see if I can put into words exactly how I did mine.

I got a piece of 4" schedule 40 pipe that was 3ft long and secured it about waist high. Then I secure a 10ft piece of my 6" schedule 40 pipe to the tailgate of my truck.

I had about a 7ft gap between the two pieces of pipe.

Then I fished all four pipes through this 3ft section of 4 inch and then through the 6 inch. This helped keep the pex pipes together yet they were supported about waist high.

I'd duct tape them together then wrap the insulation.

This made the wrapping them with the Solar Guard easier. I'd unroll the Solar Guard and cut off about a 6ft piece. (Now a 4'x6' piece) I would wrap the pex pipes with the 4ft end being wrapped. I'd get 4 1/2 to 5 wraps around the pex.

I'd then secure it with duct tape and zip ties.

Then I'd pull about 6 more feet through, cut another piece of Solar Guard and repeat, slightly overlapping the section before.

I did this for 100ft. I used two rolls of 4'x50' of Solar Guard.

I then zip tied my electric wire to this.


I glued most of the 6" schedule 40 together ( about 80ft) and fished a heavy duty rope through it with one of those eels for opening drains.

Tied and duct taped the rope to one end of the wrapped pex pipe.

My wife pulled and I pushed. After lots of pushing and pulling, we finally managed to get it through. I have to say, this was hard to do. For a while I wasn't sure we would get it all the wat through. I was totally wore out after fighting with this for about an hour.


Well, that's how I did mine!

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

Let's see if I can put into words exactly how I did mine.

I got a piece of 4" schedule 40 pipe that was 3ft long and secured it about waist high. Then I secure a 10ft piece of my 6" schedule 40 pipe to the tailgate of my truck.

I had about a 7ft gap between the two pieces of pipe.

Then I fished all four pipes through this 3ft section of 4 inch and then through the 6 inch. This helped keep the pex pipes together yet they were supported about waist high.

I'd duct tape them together then wrap the insulation.

This made the wrapping them with the Solar Guard easier. I'd unroll the Solar Guard and cut off about a 6ft piece. (Now a 4'x6' piece) I would wrap the pex pipes with the 4ft end being wrapped. I'd get 4 1/2 to 5 wraps around the pex.

I'd then secure it with duct tape and zip ties.

Then I'd pull about 6 more feet through, cut another piece of Solar Guard and repeat, slightly overlapping the section before.

I did this for 100ft. I used two rolls of 4'x50' of Solar Guard.

I then zip tied my electric wire to this.


I glued most of the 6" schedule 40 together ( about 80ft) and fished a heavy duty rope through it with one of those eels for opening drains.

Tied and duct taped the rope to one end of the wrapped pex pipe.

My wife pulled and I pushed. After lots of pushing and pulling, we finally managed to get it through. I have to say, this was hard to do. For a while I wasn't sure we would get it all the wat through. I was totally wore out after fighting with this for about an hour.


Well, that's how I did mine!

Great description Windwalker7, I understood it perfectly. What about using a come-a-long to help pull? I priced the Solarguard today from the factory. They quoted me $59.50 for a 4' x 50' roll plus $25 shipping. I have to make a 75' run with two 1" aluma-pex pipes. I think one roll should be enough for me. If that doesn't seem substantial enough when I finish then I will wrap some fiberglass insulation around it. I think I will follow your process for the most part but I changed my mind on using sch. 40 PVC. I think I might just use 6" corrugated pipe so its easier to handle in the trench. I will fish one end through the 10" sleeve I put through the concrete pad I poured and then the other end through the sleeve I put in the basement wall. Then everything else can just fall into the trench. Anybody put sand in their trench?

 

[Windwalker7]

That is one nice buck you got there.

I almost got the corragated drain pipe but was afriad it might get punctured or something. Couldn't decide what to use. I could of save alot of money going with it. I came into a little extra cash and went with the sch.40.


Had a guy tell me I should of greased up the wrapped pex with something to help it slide better.

( insert jokes now )


I didn't use sand. That might make a softer cushion to prevent punctures, too.

 

[ngzcaz]

I used drain type pipe as well. About a buck a foot for the 6 inch stuff. Anyone that has worked with underground pipe will tell you its how its tamped on the sides and top that determine whether it will hold up under a load. Simple physics at work. The pressure is actually distributed evenly all the way around the pipe making it almost impossible to have it fail especially if its a foot or 2 under the ground. Ever see a thin BIG pipe used over a homemade bridge ? Try taking away the ground on the sides and watch how quick it folds...

The trick to make your own insulated pipe is straightening the pex. Once the pex is straight, its pretty easy.. and no, mine wasnt that straight. I put 1/4 lashing thru the pipe first then just pulled the finished product thru after drilling a hole through both pex pipes and putting the lashing thru the holes. Just make it a couple inches longer than what you need, then cut off the part with the holes.


:greenchainsaw:

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

My thanks to all of you. I feel much more confident about making my own insulated pex now. Its going to be cheaper and I think it will perform much better that the $7.50 / ft stuff I was looking at.

My apologies to ngzcaz. I didn't mean to take over your thread.

 

[ngzcaz]

The thread belongs to whoever has something to contribute. Glad it had so many opinions, thats what its all about. : - )

 

[urhstry]

ngzcaz, what size stone did you use to fill in the area around your pipe? I was going to go with 1B but thought about cracker dust as a base.

 

[ngzcaz]

I used 2b..from what I've been reading its good to channel away the water as quick as possible from the pipe. On this particular run I wasn't concerned about weight collapsing the pipe. If I take it to the garage ( 120 feet ) its a different story. I'll probably use sand and tamp it well.. The air gap inside the pipe is the critical factor in maintaining temp as well as the insulation..

I also threw an old carport tarp over the pipe before I covered it with the 2b. Might help all the way around. With the cheap foam insulation and then wrapping the pex twice with solarguard, its on the same degree from the OWB to the oil burner according to the IR device I bought. Course its only 30 feet so I'm not sure what a longer run would show.. I didnt secure the solarguard with duct tape, I used the sticky aluminum/stainless steel tape lengthwise and vertically, securing each 4 foot section to each other. It was much easier to work with 4 foot sections and I didnt trust the duct tape due to the wet conditions it might encounter. Maybe a bit overkill, but I dont want to dig it up.........ever......